MovieChat Forums > Cleopatra (1963) Discussion > Less is more

Less is more

posted 8 years ago by LetThemEatCake01
12 replies | jump to latest

Yes I realize the irony in creating a thread about Cleopatra called "less is more" and I know that we all would love to see every single footage from this production, for the costumes and the sheer luxury, the gold, ACTUAL GOLD and so on and so forth, but film is a visual medium and the human body can only take so much of it. Also the art can only take so much of it, in terms of the longitude of the film or the story, and what is the point of it if there is no one to watch it because it is too long?

The truth of the matter is that this film needs at least one more hour cut. It needs to be two hours long, two hours and a half AT THE MOST. This movie is just too great for it to be lost to time because it cannot be endured. I really wish there was some way too fix it and do another cut.

Of course it would be paramount not to eliminate any of the current Elizabeth Taylor footage. She is the star here, something that Joseph L. Mankiewicz couldn't get through to his head, out of sheer machismo I guess, lord forbid a film is 90% a woman.

reply

[–] brefane 8 years ago

Are you talking about the same Joseph L. Mankiewicz responsible for All About Eve and A Letter to Three Wives?

reply

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

Absolutely, guy was a massive quack.

reply

[–] brefane 8 years ago

LetThem...are you getting your Mankiewicz's confused? I think you're referring to Herman Mankiewicz, an accident-prone alcholic who won an Oscar for the screenplay of Citizen Kane and whose brother Joseph directed Suddenly Last Summer, Cleopatra, Sleuth, All About Eve...Where did you get you're info on Joe?

reply

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

No, I'm talking about Joe. He was on drugs all throughout Cleopatra, speed shots in the morning and then sleep shots in the afternoon.

reply

[–] brefane 8 years ago

Where did you get that info about Joe? Did you see Cleopatra: The Film That Change Hollywood or listen to the commentary on the Cleopatra DVD where much talk about production problems, excess spending and Liz and Dick can be found but nothing of the Joe you describe. Source?

reply

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

I first came across the truth when I read Donald Spoto's excellent and brilliantly researched Elizabeth Taylor biography. Those documentaries you mentioned were made with the input of the Mankiewicz family. They don't want you to know that all the spending and problems in Cleopatra were because of Joe. They prefer the false and sexist narrative of the Wicked Whore of the West Elizabeth Taylor destroying 20th Century Fox, but that is not true.

reply

[–] dannieboy20906 8 years ago

Don't you dare use 'paramount' as an adverb in a posting about a 20th Century Fox production.

;)

Besides, if Elizabeth Taylor is all alone on the screen as Cleopatra we won't have much of a story, not matter how great a star she is. I know, that isn't what you mean. I'm just trying to be 'cute.'

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

reply

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

True, of course some focus would have to be put on the men but not the entire movie, Cleopatra herself feels like an afterthought or a sub title, very disappointing.

reply

[–] dannieboy20906 8 years ago

I thought she was central to the plot. Historically, she was central to the plot of the politics in Egypt, but marginal in the civil war of the Roman Empire. Still, how one sees a movie is subjective. It is art, after all. I have viewed various movies differently over time. They would strike me one way many years ago than they do now. How I react to a movie also depends on the mood I am in when I see it and they will often change my mood. So, if you watch "Cleopatra" again, at a different time in your life, you may view it differently. If it left you completely flat, you may not want to invest another four and a half hours into watching it. That's a big investment of time and attention.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

reply

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

Yes but technique is not subjective. Cleopatra is terribly shot and terribly edited.

reply

[–] liscarkat (19418) 5 years ago

It's THE PATRIARCHY! It's just like THE HANDMAID'S TALE! AAAAAaaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhh!!!

reply

[–] huwdj (4571) 4 years ago

Yes, it's too long. The version I just watched is four hours and it's just too slow to hold me still for that long. Of course I have no idea what I'd cut but I suspect next time I'll watch it in two parts on successive nights - which would be easy with this two disc edition.
It would be interesting to see if it was more watchable in a cinema - as long as they had a sensible intermission to pop to the loo, get some ice cream and possibly even a few gulps of fresh air.

reply