MovieChat Forums > The Music Man (1962) Discussion > How exactly does Harold's grifter con ga...

How exactly does Harold's grifter con game work?

posted 9 years ago by Redart27
11 replies | jump to latest

I thought he would collect money for instruments and uniforms, then escape town before the Wells Fargo Wagon showed up empty, without the instruments and uniforms. However in this story, the Wells Fargo wagon does deliver the instruments (Winthop gets his "th-olid gold, thp-lendid cornet") and the kids at the end are wearing uniforms.

Sooo, where's the con? Looks like a fair business deal to me, apart from the fact that the kids can't play them. Marian is a music teacher, so she can help start it up until a better teacher can be found. At least they got something for their money.

[–] goleafsgo27 9 years ago

My experience as a con artist is quite limited but I think you described it well. The problem for Prof. Hill was of course falling head over trombone for that totally hot librarian.

I have seen enough to know I have seen too much. -- ALOTO

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] sidneyc714 9 years ago

The whole Con was that he claimed he was a professor of music and a band leader. He said he would teach all the boys to play their instruments. Marion discovered that there was no Gary Conservatory when Harold said there was, as the town of Gary was not founded until later. Marion fell in love with him despite the fact that he lied, because he gave the town and her brother something to get excited about that summer. He fell in love with her because she did not turn him in even after knowing he was a phony.

[–] snelling 8 years ago

As much as I love this soundtrack, the story does not hold up. Same with "My Fair Lady."

"'Extremely High Voltage.' Well, I don't need safety gloves, because I'm Homer Sim--" - Frank Grimes

[–] Eric-62-2 8 years ago

The con is using the phony premise of being a music teacher to get them to buy products they basically have no use for. He's going to make them buy things that after he skips town they won't ever be able to really use unless there was a *real* band leader to direct them. That's the con.

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] mjz688 8 years ago

But unless Hill ordered the instruments without paying for them, how did he expect to make money on the con? As the OP points out, he collected money and the townspeople got their instruments and uniforms.

The only way he makes money is if he collects the money, orders the goods on credit (not sure if that was possible back then) and then skips town after the goods are delivered, without paying for them -- sticking the townspeople for the bill for instruments they can't play.

[–] macfilm 8 years ago

I think many are "overthinking" the con. Hill is just selling band instruments and other accessories.

In that strict sense, he is quite legitimate: He takes the orders and collects the cash at retail price. Then he orders the goods and pays the wholesale price and makes his profit on the difference. So, it's all quite legal so far. Everybody gets all the items they ordered.

Presumably he orders the goods, pays the C.O.D. bill when Wells-Fargo delivers, gets the goods delivered to the sellers...which is why he hangs around all summer...and then skips town before the towns people catch on that there is no organized band forthcoming.

The "con" is his sales spiel where he promises to establish a band, teach all the boys how to play their instruments ( the "think system"), and prevent the "trouble" he warns about.

Of course he "DON'T KNOW ONE NOTE FROM ANOTHER!", as his jealous rival, the anvil salesman, points out. It's just a selling ploy.

[–] dmnemaine 8 years ago

The toenspeople are conned into buying band instruments, instruction books, and uniforms with the understanding that they are investing in a boys' band that Hill will lead. They are not actually investing in a boys' band. They're just buying stuff, and Gregory skips town having made a tidy profit off them and very likely a nice fat commission from the company/companies whose products he's sold. Just because goods were exchanged doesn't mean that there wasn't a con.

[–] ncdwbmk6 8 years ago

It's ironic, though, that when the band performs for the townspeople near the end of the film, even though it sounds terrible, the parents are delighted to see their children in the band. :D

So in a sense, it wasn't a con at all.

---
Fowler's knots? Did you say ... fowler's knots?

[–] dmnemaine 8 years ago

Only because Marian "cons" Harold Hill into believing in her and himself enough to take the risk and do what was promised. Without Marian's prodding and influence, he would have skipped town.