I'm been watching the movie and I think that Fabriccio is retarged too, at least I find him incredeble simple minded.
Definitely simple-minded, but in a way that many guys of his age are. :-)
That was the point of the whole film. Because he was simple-minded, the mother thought her daughter could marry him. They were both equally childlike or simple-minded. That's why, after the wedding, she says to herself, "I did the right thing...I know I did."
shareOk, I just had a question about this as I finished watching it. Does the ending signify that Fabrizio suffers from the same semi-retarded condition as his bride? Or is it meant to imply that his Italian culture requires submission from a wife so it was a good fit? I can't decide...Please help.
Amanda
"She was drunk or he was crazy."
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It's a good argument either way, but another clue that led me to believe that perhaps Fabrizio was semi-retarded was the fact that his father lied about his age, and they were in fact 3 years apart, not six. I thought maybe that was used as a way to disguise his condition as the naievete of being a 21 year old. Anyone else care to comment on this?
Amanda
"She was drunk or he was crazy."
He didn't lie about his age intentionally. He sincrely forgot Fabrizio's age. That little plot point was needed in the story to add tension, to make Margaret think she had somehow been caught.
And I doubt Fabrizio's at all retarded. He might not be terribly bright, but he's not retarded. He runs a succesful business, for crying out loud.
~Katie~
I want to be alone... ~Garbo~
Well, but how long will this last? Fabrizio will turn 25, then 30, 32, 35, 40 . . . He'll have the cares of a man, the cares of a father probably, while his wife will be no mother. He'll be more settled, experienced, and wise. How appealing will his wife be when she has the body of a middle-aged woman and the mind of a 10-year-old?
~~~~~~~
Think cynical thoughts.
Their coupling actually made me think of the Bennets in Pride & Prejudice. The father married a young shallow fickle silly girl & 20 years later, ended up with an old shallow fickle silly middle aged woman. He barely tolerated her then.
Global Warming, it's a personal decision innit? - Nigel Tufnel
The father in P&P seems a lot more mature than Fabrizio though, a scholarly sort who likes to read and so forth. Fabrizio doesn't seem like that sort of person.
shareAt the very end, she inappropirately eats some of the breadcrumbs that the wedding guests were throwing. This, of course, made the crowd give her strange looks. Fabrizio covers for her by also eating the breacdumbs. The mother then knew that Fabrizio would not be embarrassed by her daughter, and that he really just appreciates her goodness. I don't think that Fabrizzio is simple-minded or retarded, but he's "simple" in that he doesn't have ulterior motives--he's just able to love Clara despite her disability.
I have a cousin who's mentally challenged and is a lot like Clara--both in mental stature and appearance. Because my cousin looks "normal" but does not act in a way appropriate for her age, people often don't know what to make of her. So even though this movie's plot is, of course, impossible, I find it very touching. I guess this is a bit off-topic, but I didn't want to make two separate posts ^^
She's not eating breadcrumbs! They were confetti almonds, a tradition of any wedding in Italy. They are quite delicious. Once in Capri, I happened to walk behind a wedding party and was almost tempted to pick up one of many candied almonds myself. They were just calling out to me all along the path but then I thought better of it. They are really yummy! She must have had them before and loved them like I do (you can buy them in candy shops in Italy).
You must of thought her really retarded to stoop down and want to eat breadcrumbs.
I agree with her mother in the film...she was starting to sound like a normal teenager. And Fabrizio's father said at one point in the movie that his son wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer (well, not in those words).
A simple but pleasant movie. I enjoyed it more this time than the first time I saw it.
As children - my cousin and I often scooped up the almond candies that were thrown at the bride and groom as they left the church! That's what we looked forward to! This moment in the movie really struck a chord in me. And the fact that Fabrizio did the same was foreshadowing that he would always take care of her - and her child-like impulses.
Wonderful movie! I had never seen it until just recently.
Someone above mentioned the phrase, "Mentally Challenged". Thank You. That seems so much more appropriate than retarded. I suspect Clara was less challenged than her father thought. He was concerned more with what people thought than his daughter and the idea of "putting her away" as people said then is nonsense.
Over the years, Light in the Piazza, has with stood the test of time. Two young people, just finding simple love in each other, what a delightful thought.
Olivia de Havilland will be 100 in 2016, wow. I have so much respect for her acting abilities.
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aurileo: I agree with you 1000%. In fact, the State of Connecticut still uses the term "retarded" in at least one if not more of it's statewide agencies. Politically Correct: a phrase to indicate that we're now using euphemisms instead of the real or genuine definition for a subject.
(My husband died almost 2 years ago. Recently, I ran into someone in my town who didn't know. "How's your hubby?" she inquired. I said, "Oh, Rosie -- i'm sorry -- you didn't know -- he died in January of '11." "What do you mean?You mean, he passed?. NO, I mean he DIED. (he passed? like, what, an exam? gas?) ridiculous.
Meantime -- Fabrizio is not at all slow or childlike. He's just immature. Consider how SMART, and fox-like he was to orchestrate finding out, via the concierge of their hotel, where they would be each day so he could "run into them." That's not childlike. That's totally thinking like an adult.
In addition, he's totally courting her/wooing her -- first the stuffed animal; then the flowers, and then the 10lb box of candy. Each time her mother protested, he thought it through and sent yet another gift.
smart. slick. passionate.
Italian beggar children scour the local newspapers for wedding announcements so as to trail the ceremony and feast on the almonds. There have been reports of fights between them and the pigeons.
So, to sum it up in legal terminology: Get lost, you bum.
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His father said that he was NOOO scholar, w/o saying he was simple-minded, too! A perfect match!
😁
Exactly. That's why the mom thought it would be a good match for her daughter. Even Fabricios' dad admitted "My son is no scholar".
shareI find it amazing that so many people just didn't get this film! There was nothing wrong with Fabrizio except that he was a young man of the 60's. The culture and traditions were very different back then. In addition, he was an Italian, living in Italy and that in itself was a very different as the family life was much more strict than it would have been in the states. Young men of 23 during this era still respected their parents and lived home. Maybe due to the films of today portraying the young adults as being rude, profain individuals, we can not imagine that there actually was a time when a 23 year old would act like George Hamilton did in this film. Growing up in an Italian family, I can tell you I identified with the family and their actions. This film accurately portrayed how these situations would have actually occured in 1962.
shareHaving gone to France in 1960, when I was 18, I can attest to the fact that European "boys" were very naive and innocent. In the stage production, which I just saw, Fabrizio was 20 and Clara was 26.
shareA lot of young people still act & have a strain of innocence in a lot of Asian countries as well, then & now.
Global Warming, it's a personal decision innit? - Nigel Tufnel
I have just seen the stage production for the 3rd time and I don't believe there is any intent to portray Fabrizio as simple-minded although he is innocent - naive even to the point of seeming foolish at times - the way young people can be when they are in love. The stage production compensates for it in some way with a lyric from a song in Act Two when the father sings, "I look at him/And that was me/The blindness and the energy..." Mrs. Johnson later sings, "When I was younger/I was she/The innocence, the fantasy/But that's okay/That goes away." I think these lyrics are meant to imply that young people in love can seem foolish but as we get older, we change. Fabrizio is like an immature 20-year-old and I can honestly say I know people like him.
shareI just watched again, and as always I came away with the feeling that Fabrizio is also slower than average. The revelation that he is 23, not 20, shows that he seems much younger than he really is. His father feels better thinking his son younger, rather than slow. When he realized his error, that Clara was only three years younger, he told Fabrizio not to tell the Americans anything.
I love this movie. Very sweet, beautiful scenery. George Hamilton is better here than usual.
Also its a criticism to American society being devoid of 'childlike' innocence, having become terribly cynic, and infantile much worse ways. The viewer is thought, that not everything can be solved through rational decisions, but sometimes by following your intuition/
Fabrizio may not be the brightest bulb in the package, but he's not retarded. He's naive, young, sheltered, and very much in love.
The Nameless
I am not what I am
That's the impression I got, 'not the brightest bulb in the package'. What you might call simple. Not really mentally handicapped, but more than just the naivete of youth. In the same way that Clara is said to have a mental age of 10, maybe Fabrizio could be said to be a teenager. Which is really no handicap. Only, I suspect that he won't grow up. His dad is already making 'mistakes' about his age to cover. But probably not noticeable in most situations. He's good-looking and charming, people will be calling him boyish and delightful when he's an old man. With a loving and protective family, and money to ease the way, they could have a good life together.
share
I think that the father's mistake about Fabrizio's age is there simply to provide some additional (comic) relief after the situation has been resolved to Mrs. Johnson's (Van's cousin, no doubt..:-)) satisfaction.
It is comical because it's always somewhat funny to see a parent forgetting their child's age - and people, especially fathers, really DO sometimes forget their children's age! (Whether this is done consciously or not is another matter.)
And, as I said in my first post in this thread, I think Fabrizio's definite "simple-mindedness" is no greater than that of very many young men, especially back then.
But of course there's always room for a more "radical" interpretation, such as:
A woman has to be dim-witted to marry - but even if she is, the husband will never notice it...
(Yes, of course I am kidding..:-)
I really love this piece of colourful fluff.
I saw this movie when i was 12,and even at that young age I wondered if Fabrizio was going to feel later on in life that he had been sold a "dud". What seemed to be wrong with Fabrizio was that he was the much protected son of a wealthy family. He was immature because he was able to be- he didn't have to act mature, his family was wealthy, and he had an easy life.
People all have different values.Clara being a little slower than average seems not to matter to them,but I still don't know if it is because they are a tolerant group or if they are watching someone from a different culture speaking a different language,and for that reason they don't know what is normal for that other culture.
"if it is because they are a tolerant group or if they are watching someone from a different culture speaking a different language,and for that reason they don't know what is normal for that other culture"
Well put. I don't think it's necessarily true of this film, but in general it's a very acute observation. ;)
What seemed to be wrong with Fabrizio was that he was the much protected son of a wealthy family. He was immature because he was able to be- he didn't have to act mature, his family was wealthy, and he had an easy life.
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Clara's condition wasn't from birth, was it? (EDIT: Someone wrote what I meant to but wasn't certain at that time, having not seen this for a while: It's a childhood injury.)
Don't you remember the conversation between the parents, when they note that the others who are in their age group enjoy playful activities and talk more about movies, actors and actresses than politics and other "grownup" subjects? It's also noted that, due to the differences in language, Clara's shortcomings aren't as noticeable. People likely will excuse her because she's beautiful, sweet, usually cheerful and playful, and charming. In Fabrizio's society, she will be as sheltered as she has been by her mother.
I don't think that Fabrizio is of less-than-normal intelligence. He's a privileged youth who hasn't had to leave behind his carefree existence because he is from a wealthy, somewhat important family. Believe me that it was a very different world in which young people well into their 20s could be naive and so joyful in life. "Goth" was not a way of life; all this brooding, moaning and groaning behavior was rare, which probably is why James Dean's portrayals of tormented youths were such breakout performances. I believe that Fabrizio is just a very sweet, sympathetic, naive, trusting and good-hearted young man. I think he understands about Clara, but he is in love with her. Someone mentioned how he joined with her at the wedding but perhaps not to cover up for her as much as enjoying her spontaneity and childlike behavior. Fabrizio and his friends aren't leaping toward adulthood but are savoring being young.
I have seen this film a number of times and always come to the conclusion that the two of them will be happy, even if they never have children.
I went to school with a girl a lot like Clara~very attractive and outgoing but "slow". She's done quite well in life, but her smarter, older sister has had many problems. Carol celebrates when she accomplishes something; her sister doesn't seem capable of that joy.
~~MystMoonstruck~~
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It's in the film, too.
Mrs. Johnson explains it to the lady who comes to teach Clara the Italian language. She tells her that she was perfectly normal until the age of ten when she was was kicked by a horse.
And I agree that Fabrizio is not "abnormal" in any way - but he is very much "childlike".
Fabrizio was not the brightest light in the piazza (sorry, I couldn't resist).
I was 21 years old when I first saw this movie and I was left with the impression that Fabrizio, while not as mentally handicapped as Clara, was not as fully mature, or as mentally developed, or as mentally aware as normal young men of our age were at that time. We were much more mature than Fabrizio's character. Granted we were innocent and did foolish things (especially when we were in love, or thought we were in love) but we could always distinquish between the fantasy of childhood and the reality of the adult world. For Fabrizio, the border between these two worlds seems blurred.
I have always liked this movie for the story (and its message of hope for mentally handicapped people), the more than adequate acting and the drop dead gorgeous Italian scenery (another movie from the same era also with beautiful Italian scenery is Rome Adventure). Yvette Mimeux is nothing short of stunning in her role as Clara.
I only wish this movie was available on DVD.
Well said... ahem, Filthy-beast. ;)
I am so glad to read really thoughtful, personal musings on this film.
I've said it many times before and I 'll say it again: I don' know why I love this fluff - but I do.
And I am not ashamed, not one bit. ;)
And, by the way, when I say "fluff", I mean it endearingly. ;)
In fact, this film is MUCH less "fluff" than it seems to be (probably precisely because if its drop-dead-gorgeous people and scenery).
Thank you for your very kind words, BlueGreen.
I love movies. I have probably seen over 10,000 movies to date. In any movie, I look for story, cinematography, acting and music that I can identify with or a movie that has a worthwhile message without deterring from the storytelling or cinematography, although I usually dislike 'message movies.'
You should never be ashamed to admit you like "fluff" movies. Fluff movies have their place in entertainment as much as so called serious movies and historical dramas. Firstly, movies are meant to entertain, and secondly, if you learn anything or have your horizons expanded by any story, all the better. BTW, it's okay to say fluff, or chick movies or horse operas. You're only being very descriptive!
If you liked the Italian scenery in Light In The Piazza, I highly recommend Rome Adventure (1962 - with male and female eye candy - Troy Donahue, Suzanne Pleshette and Angie Dickenson) and Only You (1994 - Marisa Tomei, Robert Downey Jr and Bonnie Hunt) if only for that one scene from the resort towards the end of the movie. Rome Adventure also has some really beautiful music and has one of the most memorable movie soundtracks.
Oh, Oh! I'm starting to run off at the mouth again. Thanks again for your kind words.
"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind, we never die."
Thank you for your suggestions!
I definitely will have a look at "Rome adventure".
(I have seen "Only you", a long time ago - and it's LOVELY.)
I suppose someone who has seen so many films definitely knows Lean's "Summertime"?
Nobody, NOBODY photographed Venice as he did - and that's because probably no director loved it or UNDERSTOOD it as he did.
(Also, one of the old great directors - can't remember who right now - told him, before starting filming, "don't be afraid of the obvious". Luckily for us, he heeded his advice. ;))
Oh, and please: do "run off at the mouth" more often. ;)
P.S. "Horse operas"?
That's hilarious! I've never heard that one before.
I thought the film implied he was slow also. The family was very anxious for him to marry.Even moreso than Mrs Johnson. I do know it would have been very cruel to marry her off to someone who was that way. Still I also found it disturbing a mother would marry her child off without telling her husband, the girl's father. But I came to enjoy the film. I guess because I loved that movie where Juliette Lewis was mentally challenged and got married."The Other Sister". Her name was Clara also in the film.
I came in on the film late.I don't get why they seem to imply Clara was born retarded if she only changed after an accident at age 10.
True, Fabbrizio is not depicted as the brightest bulb in the chandelier (or "in the piazza", as Filthy_Beast said with great wit ;), but I don't think he was meant to be overly "slow" - just a "typical" postwar young thing from a wealthy family. (Please note, the quotation marks: it's not that *I* think a dim wit would be in any way "typical" of anyone.)
As to the eagerness of his family to marry him off - again, I didn't detect TOO much of that, either - I think it was mostly because of the money they expected to gain from his marriage to Clara.
As to Mrs. Johnson... I know what you mean, of course.
But frankly, after seeing the dialogues with her husband (very good, in my opinion), I couldn't possibly blame her for choosing such an "escape" over having her girl committed to a "safe environment" (= a sanatorium) for the retarded...
And surely you can imagine what he would say if she had told him about the mariage beforehand.
Anyway, I am glad you enjoyed it.
I think this film is grossly underrated as to its content and implications.
While I am not offended the use of the word "retarded" I honestly don't think this is the proper term for Clara. IMO retardation is mental condition that occurs from birth. Clara's condition was caused by an accident. I think I would classify Clara as "mentally stunted or incapacitated" rather than retarded. IE......there is nothing GENETICALLY wrong w/her therefore there is the chance she could produce a perfectly normal child.
shareWhile I am not offended the use of the word "retarded" I honestly don't think this is the proper term for Clara. IMO retardation is mental condition that occurs from birth. Clara's condition was caused by an accident. I think I would classify Clara as "mentally stunted or incapacitated" rather than retarded. IE......there is nothing GENETICALLY wrong w/her therefore there is the chance she could produce a perfectly normal child.
So, I must be the only one to understand the film thus:
Mr. Naccarelli only slams the passports in the table and leaves angrily out of manipulation. He's already witnessed the mother capable of raising the amount of dowry in eagerness to settle the marriage. Mr. Naccarelli being an opportunist, seizes this opportunity to further raise the amount, and is therefore secretly happy to act worried about the large age difference between Fabrizio and Clara and lies/exaggerates the age difference by 3 whole years (we, as wiewers are explained this when he returns to the house and casually asks his son about his age, and we find out that he is in fact 23 and not 20). The dad already knew this, of course, but as he hints in his conversation with Mrs. Johnson just before, Fabrizio is not very educated or a man of the world. This to me implies, that he too is eager to marry of his child, just as Mrs. Johnson is.
But apparantly I may be the only one to see this mutual game of exploitation and subtle blackmail going on.
But frankly I think it only adds to the charm of the plot
Ah, that's interesting, Queen: so, you mean he only ACTED surprised and "shocked" in the monastery?
Well, it certainly is a thought worth considering.
I wonder, was Mrs. Johnson also lying - or, to use a more appropriate expression, not telling a FACT ;) - when she ASSURED her husband that "no, they are not after money"?
Or was she lying to herself?
(Regardless of her life-long delusions - or were they? - about her daughter, she doesn't really strike me as one who would refuse to see the reality and hide it from HERSELF.)
P.S. The one thing I find problematic with this explanation (re Mr. Naccarelli) is that he wouldn't have had the time to prepare a "plan" - that's the first time he sees Clara's passport (i.e. he didn't know she was older than his son) - which would mean that he acted on the spur of the moment.
I totally buy queencorvette's assertion. Just because you have money doesn't mean you don't want to have more. And most likely they weren't all that wealthy (not like the rich Americans who vacationed in Italy during the time, no backpacks back then).
The Naccarrelli's house and furnishings are inherited, the country villa was bombed by the allies, he sells men's clothes. Italians are opportunists and they are fantastic at improvisation. Spur of the moment thinking is what they do best. The more I think about it, the more I am sure that Mr. Naccarelli was manipulating the situation.
Guess I'm not the only one who is a wee bit cynical about the manipulations going on in this movie! It was the second time I had seen it, and I was really enjoying Olivia De Havilland's performance. I spent quite a while wondering what the heck was in that passport, but the scene with Fabrizzio and his father was pretty disturbing to me, as papa was acting a little shady, as in "I'm trying to put one over on the Americans." So, both the parents were trying to deceive each other, but in some way they each knew that.
I was thinking perhaps the Italian family's wealth was exaggerated. When Meg updated the dowry amount he quite suddenly overcame his objections, almost to the point of whiplash! Quelle horreur! I thought Meg was trying to weed out a mercenary interest in her daughter, but instead she was just upping the ante. And then when he made a pass at his nice "future in-law" I was beginning to think the whole thing just got a bit incestuous, and I just don't know that I like either of these people!
I think Meg's heart was in the right place, because she felt that she had to choose between marrying off her daughter to a stranger or putting her in an institution. Maybe she was being too idealistic about the power of love, and re-experiencing the first flush of love that she had in her own marriage, before the care of her daughter became her first priority. But not telling them about her daughter's limitations does not seem like a kind thing to do. It smacked of "selling" the responsibility of caring for her daughter to strangers, in order to solve her own marital problems.
It just appears to be beyond naive. I was trying to picture how a ten-year-old would raise a child: "Of course you can go out and play in the street!" "Oh! I forgot the baby was in the bathtub; I was watching cartoons!" "Yes, you can have Pop-Tarts for breakfast lunch and dinner!"
Wow, I can get really wrapped up in this melodramatic fluff! ;D
I must be insane to think it should be logical. Where's the fun in that?
Ssssshh! You'll wake up the monkey!
Oh my, it never occured to me to think like that. I guess I just want my movies uncomplicated by cynicism. (And I'm of Italian ancestry and know families that had these types of "simple" sons.) While there may be some scheming going on, I want to think that both parents wanted their children to be happy.
As for Fabrizzio being "simple", I don't think so. I think he had less responsibility than many young men his age and I think that he fell in love with Clara because she was so uncomplicated and beautiful. He will be a perfect partner for her. Lover honor and cherish - especially cherish.
I think Meg's heart was in the right place, because she felt that she had to choose between marrying off her daughter to a stranger or putting her in an institution. Maybe she was being too idealistic about the power of love, and re-experiencing the first flush of love that she had in her own marriage, before the care of her daughter became her first priority. But not telling them about her daughter's limitations does not seem like a kind thing to do. It smacked of "selling" the responsibility of caring for her daughter to strangers, in order to solve her own marital problems.
It's possible that they will have nannies to care for any children that Clara has.