MovieChat Forums > The Virginian (1962) Discussion > Huge Flaw in 'Roar from the Mountain'

Huge Flaw in 'Roar from the Mountain'

posted 14 years ago by mcmikecroaro-1
19 replies | jump to latest

Folks:

Have you seen this episode? It is season 2, episode 16.

Background: A couger has mauled a local rancher. The Shilow gang determines that the couger is injured and will likely harm more humans, possibly children.

The hired couger tracker gets cold feet when two of his dog are killed, quits the assignment, and wimpers back to town like a pussy.

It's now suddenly revealed that Steve Hill is a expert couger tracker and he continues on by himself to track the large cat (He can move faster without the bunch).

Here's the big question: When did Steve Hill become an expert couger tracker? When he arrived at Shilow 1.5 years ago, he had had NO ranching experience. To substanciate this, in season 1, there were little gimmicks here and there to demonstrate his inexperience in ranching, women, holding his own in a bar of bullies, etc.

There is certainly no way he learned this new trade prior to Shilow. Nor did he acquire the skill while working at Sholow. This demonstrated by the Vinginian questioning him about his tacking abilities as though he learned about them for the first time. I will also note that the Vinginian speaks to Steve as thought he is a total stranger.

Now granted, some shows do strech their characters a little but this is a bit much.

Any opinions?

Mike

[–] debrajosbo 14 years ago

Hi, mcmike! This is just another example of inconsistent storytelling that was to be found upon occasion not only in "The Virginian", but many early series. My belief is that the medium was still so relatively new that the writers, producers, etc. never considered the fact that the audience would actually pay such close attention to detail. To them it didn't matter. They probably had a low opinion of the average audience intelligence and just thought the incontinuity would not be noticed. Anyway, just my opinion!

"Can I ask a dumb question?"
"Better than anyone I know!"

[–] shandy8 14 years ago

So true! I recall showing a friend an old 'Star Trek' episode ('Balance of Terror') who recognized Mark Lenard and wondered why Mr. Spock didn't say anything about the Romulan commander being his father. Obviously he was playing a different character, but he played 'Sarek' for yeARS AFTER.

It's funny to see guest actors appear in episodes that are closely spaced as well. There's an 'I Love Lucy' where she plays a bit part in a movie and annoys the director, but, a few episodes later, Lucy sees 'the director' on the train and thinks he's a jewel thief.

I guess the idea of 'syndication' was not as important (no DVD sets etc...)

"What do you want me to do, draw a picture? Spell it out!"

[–] debrajosbo 14 years ago

Hi Shandy! Wow, I was just here at the computer when your message popped up! You see this trend quite prevalently in the really older shows. I have watched a lot of the old westerns and especially enjoy (when I can see them) the Warner Bros. shows - westerns and detective. "Guest stars" would appear in many different episodes as different characters. On "The Virginian", I know John Dehner was in at least three different episodes before he was tapped to be "Morgan Starr" and become the head honcho at Shiloh. I'm sure you're right that they never even considered the possibility of syndication let alone giving the viewing public any credit for noticing such details.

"Can I ask a dumb question?"
"Better than anyone I know!"

[–] jkenbyjk 9 years ago

I watch old shows on COZI TV-- Adam-12, Dragnet, etc., as well as The Virginian on various channels. They seem to use the same guest stars over and over. Sometimes, three or four times in a row they'll have the same person in vastly different roles. There's a woman who appears on The Virginian, Dragnet and Adam-12 (Virginia Gregg - blonde with weird-looking glasses) who, on various episodes, hostage taker, head of a ponzi scheme, bar owner, candy store clerk, jade owner, police officer's wife, etc., etc.) There are a handful of other guest stars who are in several episodes as different characters. I find it rather amusing that they think watchers won't notice--or, perhaps, are supposed to ignore it since it happens in so many programs.

[–] Euphrosyne 12 years ago

"I guess the idea of 'syndication' was not as important (no DVD sets etc...)"

Exactly! No - syndication was not as important. And of course, at the time there was no way to record things - VHS didn't exist then, let alone DVD or DVR. This was an era where you had 2 chances to watch a show - first run & re-run. And then, that episode went away - probably forever.

Certainly when 'I Love Lucy' was being made, the idea that audiences would be looking at these shows more than twice, let alone decades later really didn't enter into the equation.

I love looking for errors and inconsistencies in shows, but a lot of the early shows make it way too easy. Stock actors are re-used, characters are mentioned and forgotten about, etc.

And a lot of it was simply that, who knew that it mattered? Chalk it up to being part of the charm of early TV.

[–] gayspiritwarrior 12 years ago

Syndication had a whole different meaning in early TV. There were many, many original-run syndicated TV shows. They ran even on network affiliates when there was no network-produced programming. Syndication as we now use the term, rerun packages of old TV shows, didn't start until much later, usually on weekend mornings in the less desirable hours.

"The value of an idea has nothing to do with the honesty of the man expressing it."--Oscar Wilde

[–] Euphrosyne 12 years ago

Thanks for the clarification.

I generally think of syndication back then, in terms of a show that had ended its run, and was repeated ad infinitum like "Gilligan's Island" or "Bewitched". Which I enjoyed after school, growing up. I forgot that there were shows made specifically for syndication.

But still, when these shows were made nobody had any idea that people would be recording, discussing and dissecting these shows 40 years later! And they certainly weren't written with this kind of scrutiny in mind. Like I said, I find it to be part of their charm.

[–] gayspiritwarrior 12 years ago

I agree; and given that, it's surprising how often those old shows still do work, even now sixty-plus years later.

"The value of an idea has nothing to do with the honesty of the man expressing it."--Oscar Wilde

[–] shelby0296 14 years ago

I'm not going to make excuses, but alot of story lines changed. They went with what was expedient. It made for good story telling, to have Steve be the tough guy. What we need to remember is that many of these stories were a year or more apart. We get to watch them in order, in days, rather than weeks or months.

[–] debrajosbo 14 years ago

I'll go along with that. Not just on "The Virginian", but all shows, we tend to think that because only a week had passed for us, only a week had passed for the characters on the show. Actually, we have to grasp the concept that long stretches of time may have passed between the events of one episode to another. (My wording is a little clunky there but I hope you know what I mean. )

"Can I ask a dumb question?"
"Better than anyone I know!"

[–] shelby0296 14 years ago

I understand completely.

I think that the hard part of The Virginian was that they didn't always run "chronologically". I think that some episodes would have "fit" better before others, but they weren't shown like that. They played fast and loose with timelines.

[–] pete2141 14 years ago

In the very next episode they show two telegrams dated Aug. 21, 1885, yet in the previous season they had Trampas, Steve, and the Virginian fighting in Cuba with Teddy Roosevelt in 1898. That's a 14 year swing. If I recall correctly the book takes place during the late 1870's through the early 1880's. By the end of the book The Virginian had his own ranch in 1889 and lived happily ever after.

“Wait a minute, wait a minute. You ain’t heard nothin’ yet!”

[–] bear022013-588-696101 13 years ago

The Roar from the Mountain was a fine episode due to" Steve"...whose splendid performance carried it all...Joyce{Mrs.Mayhew}played off it.
The only thing wrong with 80% of "the Virginians?"is that stupid waterfall.In this"Roar"etc.Steve travels 200 miles from the Ranch only to set a trap adjacent to "the Waterfall Itself."Picnice are there,people take a lunch break from working at "Medicine Bow!On and on ad infinitum.
Jack Klugman tried to destroy the 90minutes deliberatly or who knows?
Klugman must have really been "connected"in Hollywood..he was/is below average.
ps I keep trying to forget that the Shiloh main house was only 300 yards from the Hollywood Freeway in the 60's as James Drury said on a recent interview.

[–] wildbillharding 8 years ago

bear022013 - I'm not clear about your Jack Klugman comment. Please could you clarify this? I'd also love to know more about the James Drury interview you mention. Any idea where it was published?

[–] uhriaheap69 13 years ago

Soon after he started at Shilo, he enrolled in night classes at Medicine Bow Community College.
Sorry for that, however as others stated this was common back in the day and not limited to The Virginian.

[–] jillanfordrn 11 years ago

I LOVE THE VIRGINIAN and appreciate everyone's taking a hit at it here and there. The show had the extra time needed to develop some of it's character's really well and James Drury didn't even know his characters NAME, heck a name really adds to the actors development of character....e.g Trampas, what a great fit of name to character and actor! Since losing James Garner this last Saturday, I mean to write to Mr. Drury so he knows what wonderful hours of entertainment his hard works has provided us with! I'm sad I never wrote to James Garner, because he was such a fantastic actor too!

But for those of you who like tight plots and writing and PAY CLOSE attention...may I suggest watching some Canadian TV? Da Vinci's Inquest ran for 7 seasons turning into Da Vinci's City Hall for it's 8th. There may be some comment made in Season 1 and it's not "paid off" until Season 3...WOW! What a kick for those of us who can afford to "Pay Attention!"

"I am my ohm impedance" Silifliy

[–] newguyindc2001 10 years ago

I just watched this episode on COZI network this morning!

[–] gary-64659 9 years ago

Agreed "Da Vinci's (In)Quest" is really great television -- along with another Canadian crime series appearing around the same time, I think called "Blue Murder". I watched both here in New Zealand around five to ten years ago and regarded both as an ideal mix pitched between overheated US crime series and under-done, low metabolism British crime series (or cuted up like "Midsomer Murders" and now the Canadian "Murdoch Mysteries").

Re old time tv -- Yes, it is very easy to notice how some actors were repeatedly used in those days, but it certainly sustained the generally very, very high quality of acting, unlike resorting these days to so very many non-entities who appear week after week, year after year in regular roles in crime melodramas/soaps that somehow seem to go on and on in franchises across different cities "Law and Order: Vanuatu" anyone? -- for want of new ideas. Modern producers could take a few lessons in quality by rewatching the quality of some old series for scripts, casting and acting, especially "Rawhide" and "Gunsmoke" as westerns, also "Perry Mason".

[–] bcrd500 9 years ago

"The Virginian" was actually pretty good, for its time, about keeping story lines and characters straight but what you are not taking into account is the following.

When the show started it was not like all of the characters showed up in episode 1 to begin work at Shiloh. It was understood that Garth had owned Shiloh for twenty plus years, The Virginian had worked for him for several years along with Steve, Trampas, and the other hands.

The episode that told Steve's backstory did air during the first season and close in time to the "Roar" episode but the creator's of the show did not intend for viewers to put the episodes in chronological order like a lot of series made in the past ten years.

A modern series like the "Big Bang Theory", did begin telling its story with episode one and the characters have grown with each passing season. Both shows use the concept of telling a backstory within a current episode.An example of each is "BBT" explains Leonard moving in with Sheldon and "Virginian" did the same explaining Steve arriving in Wyoming as a raw kid.

Another way of explaining it is that Season one was really The Virginian's sixth year at the ranch, Steve's fourth, etc.

It is interesting that all of us are still interested in a show that aired its last episode forty-five years ago.