MovieChat Forums > Combat! (1962) Discussion > Reloading.

Reloading.

posted 11 years ago by lrcdmnhd72
7 replies | jump to latest

Unless this topic has already been covered, it seems that weapons aren't reloaded often enough. Fully automatic fire(machine gun mode) eats up a lot of ammunition. Kirby's BAR and Saunder's Thompson both use 20 round magazines and are fired in fully automated fire mode and aren't reload often enough. Also, somewhat true for the eight shot semi-automatic M1 Garand and fifteen round semi-auto Carbine. Twenty round mags of the BAR and Thompson have a total firing time of ~2 seconds. I thought that an assistant BAR person was an ammo carrier for the BAR person.
I've noticed that the German Mauser and the U.S. M1 Garand both have very different and distinctive sounds. I would assume both would have at least similar sounds.
Full metal jacketed military ammo fired by both sides is blocked rather easily by small trees, etc.

[–] davidwile 11 years ago

Hey lrcdmnhd72,

You make a lot of good points about the amount of ammo used in the Combat! episodes. Semi and full auto weapons certainly will eat through large amounts of ammo if fired continuously. Thirty round mags were available for Thompsons, M-1 carbines, and M-3 Grease Guns, but even thirty round mags could be emptied in a few seconds if the shooter holds the trigger back. Even the eight round semi-auto M-1 Garand can be emptied in about three seconds if the shooter keeps pulling the trigger as fast as he can. You are also right about the BAR man being supported by another rifleman who also carried additional magazines of ammo for the BAR. A light .30 caliber Browning machine gun used by infantry required a crew to support the gun itself by carrying the gun, its mount, and all the ammo boxes to feed it.

Having said that, however, it should also be noted that none of the weapons were intended to sustain continued firing as we frequently see in the shows. When fired at full auto, the barrels get smoking hot very quickly. Barrels can be overheated and worn out very quickly under sustained firing. Machine gun barrels are designed to be changed fairly quickly in the field, but the barrels in BARs, Garands, Thompsons, and similar weapons cannot be changed in the field.

Usually, all of these weapons are fired in short bursts rather spraying bullets all over the battlefield. Short bursts allow for better aimed or directed fire, save the barrel itself, and conserve ammunition which is actually limited in battle. Even fighter aircraft such as the P-47 Thunderbolt had to conserve their ammunition in combat. The Thunderbolt had a total of eight .50 caliber machine guns (four in each wing), but each gun only had a total of 350 cartridges. It sure does not take long to go through 350 rounds of ammo in those guns, and I doubt if many of those pilots wanted to return to base with empty guns.

As far as the reloading of weapons in Combat! goes, I don't think it is all that bad. There are frequent shots of Saunders putting a new stick in his Thompson, and that is also the case for Kirby and his BAR. It also seems like they really like to show Caje reloading his M-1 Garand with a fresh 8-round clip, and it has been said in different sources that Jalbert was very adept at reloading his rifle.

What is bad to me is what you mentioned about how often some of the men just seem to empty their weapons as quickly as possible in a spray and pray manner. Rick Jason frequently seemed to shoot his carbine in this manner. Morrow, on the other hand, is more frequently seen shooting his Thompson in short bursts as it should be.

The Combat! shows may not be perfect, but I think they really did a pretty good job of making interesting war stories, and I still enjoy them after all these years.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[–] lrcdmnhd72 11 years ago

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your quick and detailed reply. I get the impression that you are rather familiar with firearms.
Best.

[–] lrcdmnhd72 11 years ago

Hi Dave,

Pierre Jalbert(Cage) died just this last January. He was 89. Best.

[–] davidwile 11 years ago

Hey lrcdmnhd72,

Yes, most of those folks are now gone. Of the main squad members featured during the five seasons, it would seem that Jack Hogan, Conlan Carter, Tom Lowell, Steven Rogers, Fletcher Fist, and Shecky Greene are the only ones still living as of now. Of the "extra" type folks who were used on a regular basis, I believe Angie De Meo, who also doubled for Rick Jason, may be the only one still living. Of course there are a number of guest stars who are still living such as James Caan, Beau Bridges, and Robert Duvall who starred in three episodes.

To me, Combat! was my favorite TV show of all time. I was still in my teens when it started, and I was married by the middle of the second season. My wife and I never missed an episode as we watched it with her brother who was a WWII veteran and happened to have been shot through the lung while scouting along the Moselle River near Nancy, France.

In response to you previous post noting I seemed to be familiar with firearms, allow me to state plainly that I have been very fortunate to have never had to serve in combat nor fire a shot in anger. From my youngest days, however, I have been exposed to military firearms, and throughout my life I collected about fifty or so military firearms ranging from the 1873 Springfield to the modern civilian versions of M-14s and M-16s. While I never personally owned any fully automatic weapons, over the years I have had the opportunity to shoot several American automatic weapons including the Thompson sub-machine gun, the Browning .30 and Browning .50 caliber machine guns, a Browning Automatic Rifle, the M-14 and M-16, and finally a Russian AK-47.

Yes, I enjoyed firing the full auto military weapons, but I have always considered myself fortunate in that I was firing them for fun rather than in the terror of combat. Having no children with an interest in the shooting sports as I had all my life, in 2011 I sold most of my rifles, handguns, and shotguns. I now have only a few weapons I take to the gun club to shoot claybirds or just punch holes in paper targets. I used to joke that I could arm a company of riflemen in a local militia if required. Now I am afraid the best I could do would be to arm a squad of riflemen.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[–] jarnoldfan 11 years ago

Fellows: anyone interested in WW2 firepower should attend the Knob Creek machine gun shoot, held the first weekends of April and October in Churchpoint, KY (about 30 miles south of Louisville, and north of Ft. Knox). My brother and I went in October, 1991. We missed the Friday shoot, but attended Saturday and Sunday. The Saturday night shoot is spectacular. Ever see a M16 halftrack firing its quad Fifties (with tracer) at drums of gasoline? Bring shooters' earmuffs!
Back to COMBAT!: Saunders carries his 30 round spare magazines inside his 1941 uniform jacket (along with his grenades), instead of an Army web pouch. And none of the squad carries the disposable cotton bandoliers of ten M1 enbloc clips, relying solely on their web belt pouches.
On a family note: my late uncle Glen was in the I&R platoon of the 338th regiment, US 85th Infantry Division (Italy, 1944-45). On daylight jeep recons, he carried a M1903A3 Springfield rifle with grenade launcher and M9 antitank rifle grenade (I don't know if he ever popped a German AFV; he didn't talk much about firefights). On night foot recons/POW snatches, he swapped the 03A3 for a M1A1 Thompson-with a pouch of 20 round magazines (he said he never saw a 30 round magazine in Italy; maybe they all went to France). He also swapped his M1911A1 .45 pistol to an English captain for an Enfield No.2 MkI .38 top-break revolver (like Blofeld tried to shoot 007 with in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE) AND a pint (20 ounce Imperial flask) of Scotch. At war's end, he surrendered the Enfield revolver (Allied issue-no souvenir), and his P08 (Luger), Walther P38, three Mauser rifles (one intended for my dad), and Leica 35mm camera were all stolen from him before he came home (he did bring home a Mauser 1934 7.65mm/.32 ACP pocket pistol). Several years ago (before my Parkinsons tremors worsened), I bought a prewar (1938) Enfield revolver on Gunbroker.com. It is a scarce SA/DA officers' model (No.2 MkI with hammer spur-like my uncle's), NOT the wartime spurless double action-only tankers' model. It fires the old .38 S&W round, not the more familiar (and potent) .38 Special cartridge (ammo available from Midway USA). Jarnoldfan.

[–] davidwile 11 years ago

Hey Jarnoldfan,

Retired since 1997, I have traveled in all 48 states, but never have I been to a Knob Creek shoot. I have long wanted to go there, but somehow it never worked out for me. Seeing videos of the shoot is really great but really not a very good substitute for the real thing. When watching the videos, I see all the brass being spit out by the buckets, and I always seem to think about reloading all that brass. Having been reloading for more than fifty years, I still find it most enjoyable and relaxing. I never loaded any 50 BMG rounds, but I would be happy to give it a try.

While working, I was in and around Louisville a half dozen times on TDY. If only I had been sent while Knob Creek was in action.

Thanks also for your story about your Uncle Glen. It was very interesting, and reminded of my relatives who fought in WW2. I appreciate those folks and am fortunate that I have never had to fire a shot in anger.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[–] jarnoldfan 10 years ago

Dave: one story my uncle told me stands out. After arriving in North Africa in 1944, two LSTs-one British, one American-were used to ship his unit to Naples. The crossing took nearly two days, due to anti-submarine zig-zagging. Glen drove a deuce and a half (2.5 ton truck) aboard the US vessel, ate several meals at sea, and disembarked in Napoli-no problemo. Most of the GIs on His Majesty's ship-however-got "Delhi-belly" from the cuisine, and had to be placed in reserve for several days until their "trots" cleared up. Don.