I've recently watched the entire episodes (all that exist) and in my view Diana Rigg is vastly overrated as Mrs Peel.
I find her too snooty, middle class and not so tough. You can see when the stunt woman is doing her stunts. Ha, it's a joke. Also, her relationship with Steed doesn't appear that close to me. I thought he seemed far closer to Tara King than he did Peel.
And the Tara King episodes are also much better. King was tougher and could fight better. Mrs Peel, always brushing her hair back after a fight....BORING.
I totally disagree - Mrs. Peel (and Diana Rigg) are fabulous! I bought the DVD's with Mrs. Peel, specifically.
I've seen Honor Blackman being interviewed and clips of her as Mrs. Gale and she's very good as well. I didn't much care for Tara, though...
What I liked about Mrs. Peel is that she was very smart and strong (i.e. her inner strength and her kung foo abilities). Plus she was statuesque and had a wonderful wardrobe.
'This isn't a smile. It's the lid on a scream.' - Bet Lynch, Coronation Street
I totally agree with spotlightne , Rigg is very overrated . First she basically only has the same superiority look on her face all the time . I always found her "Who's Who??" performance phenomenally poor , all her bad girl characterization consists in chewing gum . Apart from that she actually acts exactly the same way she does in every other episode , using the same two old , boring facial expressions .
She's always very artificial and never seems to put any real emotion in what she does , and episodes like "The Joker" , "Murdersville" or "House That Jack Built" lose many points because of her monotonous performances . I'm also very annoyed by her hyper-theatrical approach to those that are supposed to be the character's great dramatic moments . In her final scene where she says goodbye to Steed it seems like she's thinking of playing Clytemnestra saying farewell to Iphigenia , rather than saying some idiotic lines written by Brian Clemens . She actually goes so over the top that I find that scene the only comical sequence in an episode made entirely of depressing jokes . She's also frankly ridicolous everytime she puts an act à la Sarah Bernhardt when she's losing a fight or is knocked down ( Castle De'ath , "Girl From Auntie" , "Man Eater" etc. ) And her attempts to look cool and funny at every cost are really tiresome as well . She simply hasn't any attitude for comedy and should have understood it immediately . Well , I hope she finally realized it after the "success" of her unspeakable 70's sitcom , "Diana" .
Also The character is not as smart or tough as the writers would like the audience to think . Steed actually saves her and the day much more often that the opposite thing happens . With Cathy Gale it was exactly the contrary . And she always makes so many stupid things . In "Positive Negative Man" for example after having spent half the episode deriding Cynthia , the secretaty , for her stupidity , she actually touches the van's handle and gets electrocuted to unconsciousness . This perfectly remembering that the same thing had happened to Steed previously in the ep . She only has luck because the killer is a booby like her and doesn't even check that she's dead despite the fact he should have remembered as well that Steed had survived that accident .
In "Something Nasty in The Nursery" she knocks herself out again sniffing one of the balls that had been used since the beginning of the episode to make people revert to childhood . This despite the fact that the phrase "Recently treated" should have probably arisen some slight suspicions .
In "See-Through-Man" it is clear from the very first scene that an invisible man is at loose . Emma hears someone knocking at the door,opens,sees that no one is there , takes a look at a half-smoked cigar on the floor and happily goes back into her apartment so that the invisible man can put her to sleep . By the way the whole scene makes a plot hole , since it is eventually revealed that the killer isn't an invisible man , but a guy keeping his head hidden under the jacket , so she should have seen him entering . Well , one of too many , in one of the worst scripts in tv history .
And Spotlightne is also right about Diana needing a stunt double just to cross the street ... literally ! Watch in Castle De'Ath when she enters the courtyard at night . It's a woman with longer , blonde hair ! And she has to be the most inept fencer I've ever seen on the small or big screen . Ray Austin should have told her not to keep her arm cramped like she had polio in her duel scene in "The Danger makers" . Well , that was the only occasion where she tried to do a bit of fencing anyway , since in all her other eps all she had to do was putting on a mask so that her stuntwoman would have replaced her . But at least her double was fully rewarded in the end , with Charles Crichton giving a good , amateurish close-up to her face in "The Correct Way To Kill".
As I believe you can easily tell , I'm not a big Emma Peel fan .
I'm another one who thought Linda Thorson was fine as Tara King. In the 80s I saw her in the original Broadway production of Noises Off, and she was terrific.
But boy, my heart when out to her when she joined the cast of The Avengers; it seemed like practically everyone HATED her. I remember one television critic who summed it up this way -
"One nice thing about reruns of The Avengers; we get the Peel back, instead of the lemon."
Like I said, Linda Thorson did fine work as Tara King. But there was no way she could replace Diana Rigg's wit, style or elegance (not to mention the image of Rigg in those skin-tight leather catsuits)...
Diana Rigg and Patrick Macnee had wonderful chemistry; I didn't see anything that approached it (on television, anyway) until Penelope Keith teamed up with Peter Bowles for To The Manor Born. reply share
I wholeheartedly disagree that Diana Rigg is "overrated" as Mrs.Peel, and the reason that Steed would be closer to Tara King is that she was the only partner whose character was single, more openly devoted to Steed. The show still has legs today, and Diana Rigg is one of the main reasons why. Of course, I know a few people who disagree but that's okay. No argument can be made that would convince anyone that so many favorite episodes should be regarded as "terrible," or that Dame Diana's thespian abilities should be called into question (mredna's unkind comments in particular are so extreme that they can easily be discounted). Her lack of cleavage certainly never bothered me, she looked mahvelous in "Honey for the Prince," wearing an even skimpier outfit than in "A Touch of Brimstone." My father actually gasped when she came on in a harem costume, can't say I blame him. It's no wonder that Diana Rigg was voted "sexiest woman on television" more than 30 years after her greatest success. Mrs. Peel was always jealous when other women showed interest in Steed, which never happened in the Cathy Gale era, and in "The Positive Negative Man," when Steed himself proclaims them "inseparable," she cannot help but smile (oh, if only they were!) Honor Blackman had fewer opportunities to display her attributes, in "Death Dispatch," "Man with Two Shadows," and "The Medicine Men," and there's always "Goldfinger" to show us the prime Honor figure in glorious color. Linda Thorson was by far the youngest, and by the time her real hair grew back, in "All Done with Mirrors," she had arrived in style. Her inexperience did not detract from our enjoyment of the show, plus the later episodes shot on film were able to use more outdoor locations, and were no longer limited by the studio-bound restraints of live television. My choice for worst episode will always be "Homicide and Old Lace," a real mishmash. We loved "Split!" "False Witness," "Stay Tuned," "Fog," "Thingamajig," and "The Interrogators" (Christopher Lee).
I discovered The Avengers after the show was off the air, and after seeing my first episode (Murdersville) Diana Rigg became my HERO) - the ultimate in cool, she was beautiful, smart, independant, and not willing to take any guff from anyone.
At the time I was a tall, quiet, socially awkward redhead, and she was what I wished I could be. (Didn't become her, but she did help influence me and I came out of my shell enough to try out for a few plays in high school, and even sing in public. (Yes, I know Ms. Rigg wasn't really a singer)
I really TRIED to like Linda Thorson (Tara) and watched all her episodes - (Steed (Patrick Macnee) was still fun to look at) but just couldn't get with her character at all. Years later, when the show was on A&E I caught up on Venus Smith and Cathy Gale, but for me, as a straight middle-aged woman, Emma was my favorite Avengers woman. And when the DVD's finally were released, the Diana Rigg sets were the only ones I sprung the bucks to get.
You need to remember the era this series took place in. The 60's were a different world. When the producers were looking for an actress to play Emma Peel, they described the character as someone who needed "masculiine appeal" and shortened the description to "M. Appeal" which is where the name Emma Peel originated. Women in the '60's were craving autonomy, power and a voice, someone who could 'kick ass' FOR them but given the times, that power had to be candy coated in pink - in short, finessed. Emma Peel was that person.
Tara King was horsey, crass and brassy. She got the job done but the chemistry between her and Steed was as subliminal as a blunt instrument. The relationship between Steed and Peel was always vaguely implied and therein lies the chemistry - you knew it was there, but they had too much class to display it. When Emma Peel went off with her long-lost husband ( looking exactly like Steed ), and gave that final look back when she drove away with him, it was a betrayal of sorts and it was meant to break your heart; when this episode originally aired, it did.
No one since has been able to pull off that class, that elan, that "it" thing Diana Rigg had with this character - the deadly ability to kick your butt in designer coutoure. She owns that part.
Say what you want, I STILL want to be Emma Peel when I grow up...
Judging by his post and some of the examples used to illustrate his argument; I suspect the OP has rather missed the point of Emma Peel and indeed The Avengers as a whole!
That is exactly right, only two people were willing to sacrifice all credibility by dissing Mrs. Peel, one of whom decried the fact that stunt doubles were used for the filmed series! The tenderness displayed in the final sequence between Steed and Emma shows all the heartbreak that Cathy's exit never had. THE AVENGERS was a wonderful series, and I've enjoyed all 137 1/3 episodes, but nothing will ever surpass the lucky chemistry that only existed between Dame Diana and Paddy Nee. I prefer to smell the roses rather than shovel the manure.
I never got this thing about the amazing , unsurpassable (!) chemistry between Macnee and Rigg , people seem to describe them like they were Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn , which clearly isn't the case .
The only thing I agree upon ( and must be the reason some people are lead to believe Rigg was the ideal partner for Pat ) is that the Peel era is the only one where the two leads are on an equal ground .
Honor was just too charismatic for Patrick and when they're on screen together , you hardly notice he's there at all . Also Cathy is always ten steps ahead of Steed in almost every field and the undisputable lead . In episodes like "Bullseye" , "Big Thinker" , "Six Hands Across a Table" , "White Dwarf" or particularly "The Golden Eggs" she basically does all by herself and Steed is a very supporting character . Patrick was always overshadowed and dwarfed by Honor and actually felt it too : even if the two of them remained great friends , he actually admitted in his book , "The Avengers and I" that secretly he had always been a bit jealous of her . Back in the 60's there wasn't a newspaper which didn't dedicate to Honor/Cathy an article a day when this wasn't his case . On the other hand he said he enjoyed working with Rigg , because he felt that they were equals . Maybe their camaraderie in exposing themselves to derision together was admirable , but that doesn't make them an enjoyable duo to watch on screen , I'm afraid .
With Linda Thorson it was exactly the contrary . She was so young and passive that the relationship was imbalanced in the opposite way . She wanted Patrick to look like a knight in shiny armor and finally he became a leading man in the most traditional sense of the word , a role he certainly wasn't cut to play . He started to give his first horrible performances in this period ( if you exclude "Two's a Crowd" and "Who's Who ?" from the Peel era , two episodes which would have required a multidimensional actor ) .
And the claim that Steed and Peel's farewell scene was one of the most touching moments in tv history ( I heard some people comparing it to Henry Blake's death in M*A*S*H for god's sake ) still makes me laugh . I admit that at the end of the "Forget-Me-Knot" I was on the verge of crying as well , but that would have just been a nervous breakdown caused by the atrocity of the whole episode . On the contrary Cathy's exit was enjoyable and funny with the "Goldfinger" reference incorporated .
The fact is Diana Rigg's Emma Peel has reached the level of iconic character that happened fairly rarely back in the day. She's up there with Vaughn's Napoleon Solo and Jansen's Richard Kimble. You may as well bellyache about Telly Savalas's Kojak.
That's a huge exaggeration . Apparently you're not familiar with the level of popularity someone like , say , Guy Williams had already experimented back in the 50's . Sure the characters you named are iconic enough , but to claim that the Olympus of the legendary creations of television just includes them is very reductive . I'm a big fan of Robert Vaughn's portrayal of Napoleon Solo , but it's already debatable if he was the most popular character inside his owns show . Sure his co-star David McCallum became a much bigger favourite between female viewers . And where's Maxwell Smart , who was once voted America's favourite tv secret agent ( followed by Peter Graves as Jim Phelps ) ? Through the years , his iconic catchphrases have sure been quoted or paraphrased much more than the infamous "Mrs.Peel , we're needed " line . How about "Hawkeye" Pierce . This list could go on forever .
Anyway I think that the depth of The Avengers' fandom is exaggerated these days . Macnee and Rigg didn't even manage to win a "best spy duo" poll on the show's official site , they lost to Peta Wilson and Roy Dupuis ( not exactly two irresistible actors ) in "Nikita" !
Sure, most modern viewers don't realize when they're seeing characters inspired by Emma Peel even when it's as blatant as in a Mike Myers film, but she's reached the level of a Jungian archetype -- lodged in the collective unconscious -- like some Greek or Egyptian goddess.
Is Myers a fan of Macnee and Rigg ? If memory serves me right he wanted Sean Connery and Honor Blackman to play his parents in "Austin Powers" , guess why . Anyway even if there is some truth in what you say , everything will always start with Honor's Cathy Gale . For example Tarantino's inspiration for his kickass females has always been Honey West and she was created as the American answer to Cathy Gale . These days usually tough female characters have a role model that isn't so distant in time ( it's often Ellen Ripley ) . If you start to go back in time to trace the source , at one point you will reach Rigg , but the quest won't be over . Honor will always be the Eve of his creation , she is the Greek or Egyptian goddess you're talking about , certainly not Rigg . Emma Peel fanboys can try to turn the tables as much as they want , but nothing will ever change this .
That said, my own take can't touch the fact that Cathy Gale is not an icon -- Emma Peel is
The fact Honor wasn't allowed to have the same international fanbase as Rigg will never be able to touch her iconic status . She defined the 60's in Britain ( at the time most people were very disappointed with her replacement ) and had a really unprecedented number of fans . Honor herself admitted that her life had become incredibly hard because of this . Again , the claim that Rigg's enormous success was an "unicum" for the time doesn't make sense . Cathy Gale has become an icon for feminists and teachers and the fact that church members or politicians attacked Honor for the message she was sending is a testament to the power of the storm she had generated . She's really one of the great pioneers of tv , even if , with the historical memory people have today , not many people are around to say that . But that shouldn't come as a surprise , since her episodes are almost never aired .
I suppose that for most people Sean Connery is more iconic than John Gielgud , does this mean he has to be it for me , as well ? Certainly not .
If they remake the series or movie again in twenty years, it'll be Emma Peel in the Diana Rigg mold that shows up. Tara and Cathy will be lucky if they get an honorary mention!
Sad , but true . But you can also bet that if the show gets rebooted , and if it is a success , the new incarnation of Emma Peel will become the most popular one and Diana will become a very distant second . Just like Tom Baker lost his throne to David Tennant .
Anyway , for having claimed that you're actually fonder than Cathy Gale than you are of Emma Peel , you certainly haven't said many nice things about her ! reply share
We'll simply have to agree to disagree. Going through the entire series since early December, I would find it difficult to go back to the Cathy Gale episodes having watched so many favorite Emma Peel entries. I was amazed that only two of Cathy's episodes ("Propellant 23" and "The Golden Eggs") had been reviewed on IMDB (one more than Venus Smith! - "The Decapod"), while there was at least one review for all but 12 of Emma's 52 (only 6 of Tara's have yet to be reviewed, I'll get to them). There isn't a single partner that I didn't like, as they all had something to add to the show. I always liked Tara King, as the series still had the quality writing from seasons past, it's only the American backers who put the show to a premature end. Her relationship with Steed was different from the others, as she was much younger, therefore she was the only partner who openly idolized Steed. Of course, the farewell in the rocket was no match for the genuine goodbye between Emma and Steed, either a remarkable bit of acting, or there were real emotions being expressed between two performers who truly brought out the best in each other. Diana Rigg allowed Patrick Macnee to broaden his style, and both prospered by emphasizing the humor in every situation, and the worldwide audience was enthralled (120 nations, still an unbroken record). There were so many differences between Cathy and Emma that certain items must be pointed out. While Cathy certainly cared for Steed ("The Wringer"), she wouldn't grant him his ego, and often came off as superior in her attitude, and the actress herself did not enjoy the lighter touch that was coming into vogue by the time she left. There is no question that Cathy Gale was a powerful character ("Bullseye"), but Emma Peel was hardly in her shadow, carving out her own legacy that made viewers miss Cathy far less than they otherwise might have (Tara wasn't so successful, hardly the fault of the hard working Linda Thorson). Cathy never showed any jealousy with Steed, but Emma did, on rare occasions (it was quite common for Steed to show jealousy, especially with Peter Cushing around). Diana Rigg was almost as tall as Patrick Macnee, unlike the much shorter Honor Blackman, and when she first appeared as Emma Peel, the camera just fell in love with her. Many early Rigg entries show a clear fetish for all things Emma, spotlighting one costume after another, actually moving from toe to head, and vice versa. Thanks to excellent writing, Emma Peel proved to be more well rounded and likable than her often overbearing predecessor Cathy Gale, not the kind of character that Honor Blackman would have enjoyed playing (yet both characters had a habit of throwing back their hair after each fight). Emma's first season showed a remarkable aptitude to be both serious and humorous, often in the same episode ("Too Many Christmas Trees"). The color episodes were indeed sillier, but gems like "Never, Never Say Die," "The Superlative Seven," "Who's Who???" "Return of the Cybernauts," "Death's Door," "You Have Just Been Murdered," and "Murdersville" confirm that there are truly few weak entries in the bunch. "The Gravediggers," "Castle De'ath," "Silent Dust," "Small Game for Big Hunters," "The Bird Who Knew Too Much," "Something Nasty in the Nursery," "The 50,000 Breakfast," and "Dead Man's Treasure" are the only Peels that I don't care much for. The Cathy Gales are there for those willing to look, but Emma will be the one best remembered (only Diana Rigg can be found at my public library). Everyone has their favorites, so there's really no wrong answer. THE AVENGERS remains in my top five favorite TV shows.
Alright , you seem to have become a bit more reasonable since the last time we talked .
Of course, the farewell in the rocket was no match for the genuine goodbye between Emma and Steed, either a remarkable bit of acting, or there were real emotions being expressed between two performers who truly brought out the best in each other.
Again , that's a matter of opinion . I found the farewell scene to be very laughable and Rigg's acting to be embarrassing . I already explained the reasons . You disagree . Big deal .
While Cathy certainly cared for Steed ("The Wringer"), she wouldn't grant him his ego, and often came off as superior in her attitude
Totally disagree , again . The fact that Cathy felt entitled to criticize Steed and to act like his conscience sometimes doesn't mean she ever came off as superior . She's always very kind , friendly and caring with the people she meets . Unlike Emma Peel , who always acts like she thinks to be better than anyone . Arrogant , childish and boring . And not in a good way .
and the actress [Honor Blackman] herself did not enjoy the lighter touch that was coming into vogue by the time she left.
You can hardly blame her for not aspiring to spend an episode in a gilded cage dressed like a giant bird or to imitate the MGM lion . She's a bit smarter than that .
There is no question that Cathy Gale was a powerful character ("Bullseye"), but Emma Peel was hardly in her shadow
The personality was very different of course , but all the elements that helped Rigg to win the audience's favour were stolen from the Cathy Gale character .
Diana Rigg was almost as tall as Patrick Macnee, unlike the much shorter Honor Blackman
Your point being .. ? Also Diana was still almost 10 cms shorter than Patrick , so I wouldn't say she was exactly close to his height .
And when she [Rigg] first appeared as Emma Peel, the camera just fell in love with her.
In the first scene of "The Town of No return" the camera spent its time focusing on a shorter woman who had to do the basic fencing moves our great athlete would have never been able to , if I recall .
I also think that Rigg would have become a film star had she belonged to that circle of actresses like Julie Christie or Susannah York : in these ladies' case you could really say that the camera used to fall in love with them ! Diana herself actually admitted that she always got overshadowed by her male co-stars in the few movies she did .
Thanks to excellent writing, Emma Peel proved to be more well rounded and likable than her often overbearing predecessor Cathy Gale
Th writing of Roger "Hello-Goodbye" Marshall , Tony "Feuer , Eis & Dynamit " Williamson , Philip "Jerico" Levene and Brian "Highlander" Clemens ? If you say so .. I also always thought that it is preferable to be cool , natural and genuinely ironic rather than artificial , unfunny and obnoxious , but .. to each his own ! Also the claim that Mrs.Peel's character was more well rounded makes me laugh . Even the fans of the Peel/King era have always admitted that the Gale years are much better in terms of character development . While Cathy is a multi-dimensional character , Emma and Tara were incredibly one-sided .
(yet both characters [Cathy Gale and Emma Peel] had a habit of throwing back their hair after each fight).
I wouldn't exactly say that Honor was doing this with Rigg's same frequency ( after all there had to be a few shots where the real Diana could have given a small contribution to Cyd Child's fight scenes !)
Emma's first season showed a remarkable aptitude to be both serious and humorous, often in the same episode ("Too Many Christmas Trees")
I think that some time ago , someone said that this episode seemed to be left over from the Cathy Gale era . And I agree . Emma is definitely out of character in "Too Many Christmas Trees" and that's the reason this is probably the only episode where I managed to suffer her .. for the most part . But it should have worked much better with the caring , compassionate Cathy Gale ( who also , unlike her , certainly knew something about psychology ! )
"The Gravediggers," "Castle De'ath," "Silent Dust," "Small Game for Big Hunters," "The Bird Who Knew Too Much," "Something Nasty in the Nursery," "The 50,000 Breakfast," and "Dead Man's Treasure"
I wonder how "The See-Through-Man" , "The Correct Way To Kill" , "The Girl From Auntie" , "Man Eater of Surrey Green" , " The Fear Merchants" , "The Living Dead" and "Mission :Highly Improbable" ( just to make a very short list !) couldn't possibly be considered abominations . Also you put on your list two episodes that are almost acceptable , "The Gravediggers" and "Dead Man's Treasure" . At least Malcolm Hulke ( the best writer who worked in the show ) was always able to write a story with a decent logical continuity .
The Cathy Gales are there for those willing to look, but Emma will be the one best remembered (only Diana Rigg can be found at my public library)
For the 99th time , this has nothing to do with Rigg's ability . She just joined the right show at the right moment , that's all . reply share
The thing that is not mentioned here is context, Mrs. Peel was new in the 1960's, there was no TV character to compare her too. She was the template for every strong female character to follow from The Girl From U.N.C.L.E. to Agent Walker on Covert Affairs. The path Mrs. Peel blazed has to be taken into account when her character is discussed.
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
The OP is of course entitled to his opinion but I expect it is a minority view and few people would be swayed otherwise. I believe the Emma Peel episodes remain the most popular, I myself bought only these ones.
Any critisms of Mrs Peel are mainly subjective, the OP considers Mrs Peel to be snooty and uses 'middle class' as a derogatory term even though he prefers Tara King who in my opinion is no less middle class. I'm not sure why he appears to have a prejudice against middle class people anyway.
As for comparisons of the 'chemistry' between Steed and Mrs Peel and Steed and Tara King it's significant I think that according to the IMDB Patrick Macnee and Diana Rigg remained life long friends and his personal quote on Linda Thorson was:
"I would have liked her to learn how to act. It was going from a very great night. If you listen to her, you can never hear the end of a sentence. You'd never catch Diana Rigg not being able to hear what she said."
To be honest I think this was somewhat harsh, I could hear the end of a sentence but nether the less this was his opinion. However I do think Diana Rigg was better at delivering the comedy quips and witticisms better than Linda Thorson.
In any case The Avengers was never intended to be high drama and was a fantasy played somewhat tongue in cheek. I think one also has to allow for the fact that the early monochrome versions were made on a relatively low budget so it would be easier to pick any holes in them. However I think most audiences don't try and analyse any of the series much and accept it as it is for its entertainment value.