MovieChat Forums > Rocco e i suoi fratelli (1961) Discussion > Coded homosexual undertone in scene w/ S...

Coded homosexual undertone in scene w/ Simone and Diulio

posted 14 years ago by jcnsoflorida
28 replies | jump to latest

I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether homosexuality is implied in the scene late in the film where Diulio brings Simone to his (stylish) place, says "You were an Apollo", etc. I think in 1960 Visconti couldn't have made that overt but it seems to be under the surface. And is the criminal charge brought by Diulio, in a sense, a kind of reverse blackmail? Honestly I don't know if I'm right about this or not. I could go either way, so to speak, w/ my interpretation. I love the film.

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[–] DaniSwiftknife 14 years ago

Most of Visconti's film have some type of homosexual undertones.

Don't say it's just a movie. If I thought it was just a movie, I wouldn't have an imdb account.

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[–] zarathustra_777 14 years ago

I noticed that as well, thought they were having a sex-money exchange relationship for a while when that scene happens.

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[–] jerry4444 13 years ago

The version of the movie that I watched was PG rated, I wonder in the uncut version there were some sex scenes or at least intimate exchange involved? As far as I could remember, before the scene changed, the TV was made louder or switched to another channel. Was it to drone out the, well noises, or to prevent neighbours from hearing anything?

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[–] ibbi 10 years ago

Oh, definitely. I think it was pretty obviously intended where he puts his hand on his shoulder, and Simone pulls away, yes.

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http://tinyurl.com/p8a6lvp

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

Thanks to all. It's nice to know I'm not totally imagining this.

Jerry, I don't know if there is an uncut version. I suppose the version released in Europe could be considered uncut. But my guess is the PG rating was applied to the existing version years later. I kind of doubt if cuts were made then but, on the other hand, anything is possible.

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[–] preppy-3 10 years ago

From what I heard its completely uncut in the US and nothing explicit happened. Remember--this came out in 1960. There was no way they could get gay kissing or a sex scene on screen.

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

Yes, I agree. The PG rating didn't exist in 1960. I really doubt if there was ever an explicit version, anywhere. Visconti managed to imply some things, though....

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[–] preppy-3 10 years ago

Exactly. In fact ratings didn't even exist until 1968! When the rating system came up Visconti stopped implying and showed things full force. Look at "The Damned" which had a gay orgy scene (even though nothing is really shown) and slapped with an X rating. Brilliant film though. Its his best IMHO. I like "Rocco" but it's a little too long and depressing.

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

It's been a long time since I saw The Damned but I liked it and tend to like anything Visconti. I'm a bit biased in favor of Rocco because I have a crush on 60s Delon. I love the scene in the shop where the female staff are obviously agog.

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[–] preppy-3 10 years ago

Oh yes! Delon was a VERY handsome man when he was young. I remember seeing him in "Purple Noon", "The Leopard" and "Spirits of the Dead". VERY VERY handsome and a damn good actor. Supposedly he was difficult to work with though. "The Damned" I like more cause it was so OTT, looked beautiful, had some casual male nudity and made it clear that one man was gay.

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

In the 70s French director Jean-Pierre Melville made a few crime films starring Delon. I don't know if you would like them but he's on screen a lot, so you might.

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[–] preppy-3 10 years ago

Great! Thanks for the recommendation :)

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

One of them has Deneuve (w/ little screen time) as his mysterious girlfriend.
In one of them as a cop he semi-beats-up a TV (transvestite). One of them has the worst special effect I've ever seen. You'll know it when you see it. Melville has a cult following, mainly in France I guess but I'm a Florida member.

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[–] preppy-3 10 years ago

Deneuve and Delon in the same movie? They're two of the most beautiful people ever. I'm gay but I'd switch to be with Denevue:) She scared the hell out of me in "Repulsion" and broke me heart with "Umbrellas of Cherbourg".

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

OMG, I recently saw Cherbourg for the first time and it's one of my absolute favorites now. She's great in Belle de Jour too, of course.

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[–] preppy-3 10 years ago

Yeah--"Cherbourg" is GREAT! I originally saw it back in the 1990s when they reissued a beautiful brand new print to art houses. I remember stumbling out of the theatre crying my eyes out but also stunned by how great the film was and how gorgeous she was. Previously I had only seen her in "The Hunger" (a dreadful film) and "Dancer in the Dark" where she goes WAY OTT. Never saw "Belle de Jour". I'm not sure if Bunuel is my kind of director. It looks like it's all imagery and little plot.

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

Belle is good but I'd describe it as chilly. But Deneuve's characters are often emotionally distant, remote.
Last year's 'Young & Beautiful' is basically a remake. Directed by Francois Ozon who also did 'Swimming Pool'.

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

Watch the trailer for Young & Beautiful and decide for yourself whether to see the film. I've recommended it to several friends and no one told me they liked it. But I did.

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

Directors Demy and Ozon were/are gay. Demy was married to a woman but she herself talks very openly about him being gay.

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[–] preppy-3 10 years ago

Demy was gay? Didn't know that. Ozon I knew just from watching his movies:) I know Denevue did one film with him and complained how he was very obnoxious and demanding. I've seen some of the films--"8 Women" and "Swimming Pool" were great but "5X5" and "Time To Leave" were muddled and pointless. I saw the last two at a film festival and everyone walked out going "What was that about?"

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

Yes, I can't say I like all of Ozon's films. So you did not like 'Jeune & jolie'?

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[–] preppy-3 10 years ago

Didn't see that one. After "5X5" the art houses here stopped showing his films (for some reason). If they do play it's only for one week so I've missed a few. Seriously after "5X5" I don't think I'm missing anything!

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[–] jcnsoflorida 10 years ago

Ok, I understand.

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[–] fellini812 10 years ago

BTW, what's the significance of Diulio's TV in this scene? There is a close up shot of the screen for some reason.

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[–] pbn 10 years ago

I think it helped show Diulio's affluence. Television was still something new and unusual at the time, especially to working-class Italians like the Parondis.

--
Peter

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[–] plkldf 9 years ago

But the TV is WEIRD. It's as though there is a lighted scene in back of a fake TV and the background is far back from the "screen," so when the camera moves the scene on the TV changes in sync with the camera movement. It's truly bizarre.

Like if you're looking out a small window - as you move to the right the scene outside shifts to the left. Really strange.

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[–] Mr. Bug 8 years ago

It's a poor special effect. Like in the end with the posters on the wall. One of the few things that makes this film look outdated now.

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[–] pbn 10 years ago

What bothered me a little was that this portrayal of a homosexual was accompanied by probably the most ominous score music in the film. I wonder how Visconti felt about it.

--
Peter

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