MovieChat Forums > Psycho (1960) Discussion > OT: Nolan's Dunkirk (MINOR SPOILERS)

OT: Nolan's Dunkirk (MINOR SPOILERS)


I've seen it, and it goes like this:

I'm not the only one to have noticed this but: what gives with Tom Hardy not being willing to show his face on screen?

In Dunkirk, he keeps his face covered by his fighter pilot's mask for almost the entire movie(his eyes have it, but still.)

In Nolan's "Dark Knight Rises," Hardy wore a face-hiding breathing apparatus as "Bane," and only once, in a flashback at film's end, did we see his full face(like, for ten seconds.)

In "Mad Max," Hardy's face was in a jailer's mask about 1/2 of the movie.

Its starting to seem like an affectation. Doesn't he know that we like to see the FACE of our stars? And of people in general?

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I saw Dunkirk with a companion who found the film...awful. She could not understand who was who or what was going on, or why we should care. I remarked, "well, I think we've just seen the disguised art film of the summer." I liked the film a lot more than she did, but I sensed Nolan giving himself yet another "esoteric task" -- toying with time and space to create his own difficult-to-read reality.

As "Inception" unfolded in a series of "mind spaces," so Dunkirk cuts between the events of "One Week," "One Day," and "One Hour" and forces us to understand how these things can be happening "at the same time" on screen. Its headache inducing. Which reminds me: Memento. 'nuff said.

Not to mention: both The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises specialized in a cross-cutting technique so that scenes in the present and the past fused into one.

In short: this is Nolan's bag.

The vignettes are too small, but they have impact. The guy from Bridge of Spies gets a lot less to do here, but it all counts -- he's a "regular man" who sails his small boat to rescue soldiers on the high sea, and he has to make all sorts of life and death decisions while giving moral guidance to his teenage son on the boat. He's great.

Tom Hardy is in the air, the desperately-sought-after-guy who can save the soliders according to how many enemy planes he can shoot down.

And then there is Admiral Kenneth Branaugh and thousands of stranded soldiers trying to escape from the French shores back to an England "we can see from here."

Neither the Bridge of Spies guy, nor Hardy, nor Branaugh get enough to do to care too much, the movie falls to younger cast members, many of whom look too much alike.

But the film DOES capture the terrors and sudden-death endings for soldiers who can be strafed from the air, torpedoed in escape craft, or bombed. Drowning is the main killer...terrifying in itself. There are many "visceral" scenes of near-death and escape, and, indeed, a real nice homage to the Foreign Correspondent plane crash.

Good. Not great. Possible Oscar bait on the technical side, but the actors simply aren't given enough to do.

Oh..on the Hitchcock thing. Hitchocck's "pure cinema" techniques are much in evidence, but Hitch knew when and how to get character and great dialogue in his movies. We CARED about his characters.

Hitchcock's greatest lie was: "Other peoples movies are photographs of people talking." Yours, too Hitch. They talked a lot in Rope and Dial M and -- between pure cinema scenes -- Vertigo and Psycho and NXNW, too.

Dunkirk could use more of that.

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I saw Dunkirk with a companion who found the film...awful. She could not understand who was who or what was going on, or why we should care.
I gather that Dunkirk neither shows nor names the Germans, nor does it care to provide explanatory material to get people who may have little prior awareness of the historical situation up to speed. This basic decision obviously makes for a very seamless, possibly primal, you-are-there visual experience but comes at a cost of losing quite a lot of the audience.

I had a similar experience recently with an award-winning NZ documentary, The Ground We Won, about life in a NZ small town called Reporoa and especially the role of rugby in that town. Well, I'm a NZ-er and didn't know where Reporoa was and really would have appreciated seeing Rep. located on a map and possibly some other basic background about the area provided. Once it became clear that the doc was *never* going to provide any such information (indeed no voice- or text-over commentary of any kind would be forthcoming) I paused the film and got on-line to get that info. for myself. I suspect that at least 98% of the people world wide who ever see this doc. will do exactly that. So the doc. makers drive to present a strictly poetic doc without any seams has had the perverse effect of ripping a big hole in their canvas that almost all of the audience will fill by improvising their own completely uncontrolled background dump! Bad outcome.

I do feel for Nolan a little bit because both Inception and Interstellar took a lot of heat for having too much verbal exposition. But it seems as though he may have gone to the opposite extreme in Dunkirk.

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I gather that Dunkirk neither shows nor names the Germans, nor does it care to provide explanatory material to get people who may have little prior awareness of the historical situation up to speed. This basic decision obviously makes for a very seamless, possibly primal, you-are-there visual experience but comes at a cost of losing quite a lot of the audience.

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I will keep to MINOR SPOILERS, but I felt there was enough information to work with, and the Germans are rather a barely-seen threat. Still, my intelligent companion complained that she did not feel clear on who-what-where, and as I recall, I had to whisper some background WWII information. Personally , I STILL need to research where the French soldiers in the film ended up. Captured? The Occupation? The Resistance? They are shown but not accounted for.

One great very early bit:

Aircraft drop hundreds of flyers from the sky onto the heads of the British and French soldiers below. Each flyer has a map of the Dunkirk beach, a small encircled area marked "You" and giant arrows surrounding "You" with the giant word "US" -- to tell the British and French soldiers that they are surrounded, trapped, overwhelmed, better give up. THIS is a nice piece of exposition.

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I had a similar experience recently with an award-winning NZ documentary, The Ground We Won, about life in a NZ small town called Reporoa and especially the role of rugby in that town. Well, I'm a NZ-er and didn't know where Reporoa was and really would have appreciated seeing Rep. located on a map and possibly some other basic background about the area provided.

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That's intriguing. You LIVE there, and the town is obscure and the filmmakers elected not to give some background on it.

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Once it became clear that the doc was *never* going to provide any such information (indeed no voice- or text-over commentary of any kind would be forthcoming) I paused the film and got on-line to get that info. for myself. I suspect that at least 98% of the people world wide who ever see this doc. will do exactly that. So the doc. makers drive to present a strictly poetic doc without any seams has had the perverse effect of ripping a big hole in their canvas that almost all of the audience will fill by improvising their own completely uncontrolled background dump! Bad outcome.

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I suppose forcing the audience to do that ends up being a "creative strategy" of the filmmaker; they forced that for a REASON...and lost viewers accordingly.

I so often feel that movies work best when we have a clear sense of the history of the setting and the topography of the setting. Funny about Hitchcock: he was often quite clear on topography (Bodega Bay from San Francisco in The Birds; San Juan Bautista from San Francisco in Vertigo; Santa Rosa as a town in Shadow of a Doubt, Cary Grant's journey north by northwest from NYC to Rushmore), but rather famously kept Psycho in a weird netherworld with Janet Leigh seeming to drive 600 miles in a few hours to a motel near a FICTIONAL California town called Fairvale that proved to be in a REAL California county called Shasta.

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I do feel for Nolan a little bit because both Inception and Interstellar took a lot of heat for having too much verbal exposition. But it seems as though he may have gone to the opposite extreme in Dunkirk.

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As I've gotten older, I remain mentally sharp on a lot of matters, including work-related tasks. But I've found -- to my chagrin -- that the plots of many movies I see practically disappear from my brain within months. I will see a film on cable that I saw perhaps a year ago, and other than the ending and key scenes, I don't remember a thing. Such it is with Interstellar -- I can barely remember where that plot went, though I recall it getting very weird at the end. Inception I am better on, but I own it and I've seen it a few times to "learn it" and ITs very weird play with time and space.

The Prestige I saw on release. All I have is the memory of liking it. Memento I saw on release,but I own THAT one, too, and I've watched it enough to know it pretty well (though I have never playeds the DVD scenes in reverse order to get the movie in the right order.)

I recall that Nolan has used Michael Caine as a good luck charm actor in everything from The Prestige on...except Caine is not in Dunkirk. I worry that Caine's age is catching up with him. Instead, Dunkirk has the guy who played The Scarecrow in all three Dark Knight films as ITS good luck charm. Can't remember his name right now. Compelling, delicate-featured face.

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Instead, Dunkirk has the guy who played The Scarecrow in all three Dark Knight films as ITS good luck charm. Can't remember his name right now. Compelling, delicate-featured face.
Cillian Murphy (he was the mark in the main con/scheme in Inception too). He was also the lead in Sunshine (2007), good as the baddie in Wes Craven's plane-set thriller Red Eye (2005), and excellent as the lead again in a very good (Palm d'Or-winning) UK/Irish film The Wind That Shakes The Barley (2006). Dude improves anything he's in - he's rather a lucky charm for a lot of people.

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but I sensed Nolan giving himself yet another "esoteric task" -- toying with time and space to create his own difficult-to-read reality.
As "Inception" unfolded in a series of "mind spaces," so Dunkirk cuts between the events of "One Week," "One Day," and "One Hour" and forces us to understand how these things can be happening "at the same time" on screen. Its headache inducing. Which reminds me: Memento. 'nuff said.
There's a cost from this kind of puzzle-mongering... Huh?/What's-happening?/When-is-this-happening? films are in a way the new Whodunnit?s... where, as Hitchcock warned, the emotional and suspenseful core of your film can be undermined by the more-distanced game-player perspective the material requires.

The Prestige (2006) is one of my favorite Nolan films (e.g., it's a really great-looking film I think and it's almost all handheld so almost every shot has some little surprises in it) but Nolan can't help himself but make it more complicated than it needs to be as characters steal and read each others diaries - and the diaries are *about* reading the others diaries and acting on what was learned there etc.. It's clever and particularly on rewatches works well for a fan or someone very committed, but first time through (and for a lot of people that's all any movie gets) The Prestige is, yes, a little headache-inducing. It's therefore maybe not a good film for casual, social viewing.

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There's a cost from this kind of puzzle-mongering... Huh?/What's-happening?/When-is-this-happening? films are in a way the new Whodunnit?s... where, as Hitchcock warned, the emotional and suspenseful core of your film can be undermined by the more-distanced game-player perspective the material requires.

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Absolutely. Hitchcock may have often been able to tell his stories without dialogue (the nine minutes of Marion's murder, clean-up and burial in Psycho) for certain stretches, but he was very big on clarity. I have this quote from him: "The two most important elements in a movie are narrative and character development." Another self-contradictory statement from Mr. "Pure Cinema" but his movies prove that he could do both things -- cinema and character story telling -- at the same time.

Me, personally, I'm big on enjoying dialogue bouncing among characters. Its why I like QT's work so much, violent as it is. Its why I like the Norman-meets-Marion and Norman-meets-Arbogast scenes in Psycho(remember, Tony Perkins suggested to Hitchcock that Psycho become a Broadway play.) Its why I recently liked watching Lee Marvin and Gene Hackman trade gangster threats in a couple of scenes in the otherwise medicore 1972 thriller Prime Cut.

And there is very little of this in Dunkirk.



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THAT said, I have perhaps "undersold" the fact that Dunkirk DOES find very good narrative "thru-lines" for its stories. The Bridge of Spies guy is named Mark Rylance(I looked it up) and his vignette about a regular man's small boat at sea has a beginning, a middle, and an end that are quietly moving and powerful. Rylance gets one moment where the mere look he exchanges with his teenaged son communicates how they will always remember this adventure for how it made the boy a man. And Tom Hardy's vignette has a poignant conclusion.

So there IS some "human character involvement" in Dunkirk, but you almost have to pluck it out of a larger canvas and cling to it for the seconds that you get it.

Two things seem clear to me about Chris Nolan: (1) the mega-success of his Batman trilogy in general and the one with the Joker in particular has bought him the ability to make more movies for quite some time and (2) Nolan is rather intent on making somewhat arty "mind game" films that will either keep him in the game or eventually reduce his power as a commercial filmmaker in budget and promotion. I gather he doesn't much care. He wants to make his stories, his way -- and he knows how to work in Indies(Memento.)

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Nolan is rather intent on making somewhat arty "mind game" films that will either keep him in the game or eventually reduce his power as a commercial filmmaker in budget and promotion.
All of Nolan's moves post-Dark Knight movies (where's he's had essentially blank checks, complete casting and story freedom, etc.) have made significant profits notwithstanding that all have really been *big*, very expensive films to make. I read in some interview with Nolan that he understands that sooner or later his blank check period will come to an end so he needs to make all his huge-budgeted projects *now* and that he's shelved all his 'small' projects for the time being.

Sooner or later he'll do a 'mind game' big-budget project that just won't work at all for a broad audience and his situation will change. One of the most interesting movies I've seen recently is a French film, Nocturama. It's a kind of mind-game movie albeit of a Kubrick-ish and Godardian frustrating sort that's quite different from Nolan so far. Only a very small audience will ever see Nocturama let alone like it. Half of any normal multiplex audience would walk out I think. Sooner or later, I'd guess that Nolan *will* stray into something more intensely mysterious and patience-testing like Nocturama or (two of its big influence pools) Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut and Full Metal Jacket or Godard's Weekend and Two or Three Things I know About Her.... and start to lose money as a result. But so far you'd have to say he's done such an amazing job for Warner Bros that he'll quite possibly be kept on by them with something like Kubrick's old deal of complete control but with a medium budget cap (pretty much the deal QT has always had with Miramax).

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All of Nolan's moves post-Dark Knight movies (where's he's had essentially blank checks, complete casting and story freedom, etc.) have made significant profits notwithstanding that all have really been *big*, very expensive films to make. I read in some interview with Nolan that he understands that sooner or later his blank check period will come to an end so he needs to make all his huge-budgeted projects *now* and that he's shelved all his 'small' projects for the time being.

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Well, its good to see that Nolan fully understands his situation (while peons like me just muse about it.) I think what's interesting is that often a director like Nolan gets the big bucks for "personal films" to keep him coming back to make the commercial stuff. But Nolan is DONE with Batman, there's no reason to work with him to get him back (but hey, maybe some day he makes one more.)

I think the "flip side" is that Nolan brought such profit to Warners with the Dark Knights that they'll keep banking on him because of such accomplishment that one time. And if his other stuff is profitable(I think Inception was quite a hit), mo better.

BTW, I think that both Hitchcock and Clint Eastwood were allowed to keep making movies in "decline years" because their studios liked having the Hitchcock and Eastwood libraries of films to distribute (VHS, DVD, cable in Eastwood's time; TV and college revivals in Hitchcock's..) Warners and Universal wouldn't want Clint and Alfred pulling their ownership rights. Irony: Hitchcock came back a little at the end from his decline(Frenzy, Family Plot). Eastwood came back a LOT from his decline. (Unforgiven was the comeback; it stretches to...today.)

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Sooner or later (Nolan will) do a 'mind game' big-budget project that just won't work at all for a broad audience and his situation will change.

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I expect so. And it sounds like he's got his small-budget indie ideas all lined up. Smart man.

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But so far you'd have to say he's done such an amazing job for Warner Bros that he'll quite possibly be kept on by them with something like Kubrick's old deal of complete control but with a medium budget cap (pretty much the deal QT has always had with Miramax).

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There's something to be said for "maintaining a deal" strictly because you are an established auteur whose name will always mean something. Kubrick's deal was incredible -- given that near the end, he would space his movies out by 7 and 12 years! QT's got that deal.

And back in the day, HITCHCOCK got that deal. Even as a host of Golden Era directors lost their studio contracts -- guys like Capra and Ford were pretty much dropped, and Wilder floundered -- Hitchcock was kept on at Universal by Wasserman and it was NEVER suggested that the studio would force Hitch out. He had a contract til the day he retired -- about a year before he died.

So, maybe Nolan gets that deal...

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