MovieChat Forums > Psycho (1960) Discussion > Hey, EC... Question for you.....

Hey, EC... Question for you.....

posted 8 years ago by Gubbio (3893)
10 replies | jump to latest

I watched an old "Dick Cavett" interview with Janet Leigh last night on the "Decades" cable channel. (I was thinking of you.)

Cavett asked her how Hitch got the shot of the shower nozzle spraying -- without hitting the camera. She said she didn't know, and the subject was dropped.

In her defense, she explained in other parts of the interview, that she never concentrated on where the camera was or what it was doing. She stated that she used her emotions and acted as if she was in a stage play, not worrying about close-ups and the like.

I'm sure I read the nozzle question somewhere, but I don't recall the answer.

I'm SURE you can enlighten me. ;-)

[–] Doghouse (457) 8 years ago

Hi, Gubbio! Long time, no see. If you don't mind my jumping in...

I have no specific facts, but plenty of supposition based on more general ones. That shot, an insert, would most certainly have been done when Leigh was nowhere near the set. Not only Hitchcock's films but everyone's are full of such inserts that don't require the presence of high-priced talent on the set (the closeup of Jeff's hands placing the flashbulbs in his lap just before Rear Window's climax for instance - those are not Stewart's hands - or of Smiler Grogan's foot kicking the bucket in It's A Mad...World; they didn't need Durante for that, and it's stuntman Carey Loftin's foot we actually see).

The shower nozzle had to have been specially designed to direct the spray around what would remain a dry area for the camera's lens, but even that poses a problem: whether you place the camera first and then turn on the water or do it in the reverse sequence, water's going to hit the lens. My guess is it was all set up with both lighting and camera placement first, and then simply cover the lens when the water's turned on, uncovering it only when the water has been adjusted to the proper force and direction.

[–] Gubbio (3893) 8 years ago

Hi, Doghouse. Good to see you, too! I miss the old boards and the old gang.

Yeah, I assumed the shot was an "insert" and that Leigh probably wasn't even present. Isn't it said that Perkins was nowhere near the set when the shower scene was shot?
The magic of the movies.....

Thanks for your input

-Gubbs

[–] ecarle (14979) 8 years ago

Good to see/hear some of the old gang talking amongst yourselves!

Here's what I've read about the shower nozzle insert.

It was specially built to spray the water OUT TO THE SIDES rather than straight down at the camera. There's a possible apocryphal (sp?) story of Hitchcock standing next to this set-up and getting sprayed with water.

I've looked at the shot and that's not quite evident to me, but Hitchcock knew how "the camera lies" about depth and direction.

Which reminds me: the famous Psycho house was built something like only 2/3 regular size so as to "fit" in Hitchcock's lens selections to cover the entire house.

Today, CGI covers so many of these "tricks." I'm always a little thrilled to read about how Hitchocck had to keep coming up with ideas to "get the shot."

Which also reminds me: the headlights of cars BEHIND Marion in the dark as she takes the wrong turn to the Bates Motel: Hitchcock had light bulbs put on a horizontal wheel that spun the lights "off left" as she turned the car wheel "off right." Voila -- it looked like she was leaving the cars behind. And there were no cars. She was on a soundstage in a cutaway car with a "wheel of lights" behind her.

[–] ecarle (14979) 8 years ago

As with RE: the stars not knowing so much about the workings of the movie they were in:

Tony Perkins did say that he asked for the week off while the shower scene was filmed so he could fly to New York and rehearse the musical "Greenwillow." So he was nowhere around to see the filming of the most famous scene in movies! He didn't much care. It was a week he wasn't needed. Then he flew back and completed the film. Scary: what if Perkins plane had crashed. It would have been bad for him to get killed so young but worse(ha): no Psycho?

Perkins WAS there to watch the Arbogast murder scene being filmed and it was Perkins report that a little person(named Mitzi) attacked Balsam on the stairs.

At the AFI salute to Hitchocck in 1979, Perkins told the audience that Mother in the shower scene was played by "My stand-in, Burt, so HE can take the blame." Except history shows that Mother was played in that scene by a woman named Epper. (Can't remember her first name, there was an Epper family of stunt people.) So Perkins didn't even really know who replaced him in the scene. (He did say that whoever it was , was right-handed, and he's left-handed.)

And think about Janet Leigh and the shower scene. It took seven days to shoot...but she may have only been there for four. All the shots of Mother attacking didn't need Leigh(after Mother's first approach to the shower curtain); nor the shots of the body double(the overheads of Mother attacking IN the shower).

Leigh had a bit of a star ego about the shower scene. She refused to acknowledge that there WAS a stunt double during the murder. She said a double was only used for Marion's body being carried in the shower curtain. Wrong.

[–] ecarle (14979) 8 years ago

I watched an old "Dick Cavett" interview with Janet Leigh last night on the "Decades" cable channel.

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Was Anthony Perkins also a guest? I saw that episode in 1970.

I remember parts of it very well. Leigh came on first, and talked about how Hitchocck had her up to his house "to work on the character in depth."

Then Perkins came out and Cavett said: "So, Tony, did Hitchcock have you up to the house to work on the character in depth." Perkins smiled, chuckled and said, "No, he did not."

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(I was thinking of you.)

--

Well, if I'm carrying forward Psycho and Hitchcock even in this small forum...I'm glad.

Its funny how a movie that had such an impact on me(and all my friends, and our parents) in my late childhood has been passed on by me over the decades to others in terms of how it came to me. North by Northwest, too.

I've done other things with my life, but its kind of fun to know that this "private side" of my life's experience may just live on past me it terms of the conversations I have tried to start.

[–] Gubbio (3893) 8 years ago

Was Anthony Perkins also a guest? I saw that episode in 1970.

Perkins wasn't on this show.

These shows seem to be half hour shows. They don't seem to be edited down from a longer show, because at the end of each half-hour, Cavett bids goodnight to his guest, and the credits roll. In the next show that follows, the same guest might be there, and they talk as if it is another night or another taping.

I've seen this with several guests. George Cukor appeared in 2 segments, as did Shelley Winters. The night I saw Leigh, Eve Arden filled the next half hour.

The set and format seems different from the hour (or more) shows which occasionally appear on PBS and can be found on YouTube, with the likes of Hepburn and Davis.

[–] ecarle (14979) 8 years ago

Perkins wasn't on this show.

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Interesting. Interesting in that Dick Cavett evidently felt that Janet Leigh "solo" was as good a guest as any. By then, Janet Leigh had cemented her claim to being in three great interrelated thrillers -- Touch of Evil, Psycho, and The Manchurian Candidate -- AND a host of other Golden Era movies as well (from Little Women to The Naked Spur to The Vikings to Bye Bye Birdie.)

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These shows seem to be half hour shows. They don't seem to be edited down from a longer show, because at the end of each half-hour, Cavett bids goodnight to his guest, and the credits roll. In the next show that follows, the same guest might be there, and they talk as if it is another night or another taping.

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I'm sure that a journey to imdb would specify the years, but I recall Cavett in these doses:

Late sixties: a morning show on ABC. I recall during the 1968 political conventions and riots, Cavett's show was there.

Late sixties -- early seventies: The "classic" Dick Cavett. 90-minute shows, often with a political bent(whereas Johnny Carson stayed away from controversy, just made gentle jokes about all politicians.) Hitchcock did one of these(in June of 1972, to promote Frenzy), as did Brando and Bette Davis and Robert Mitchum. And as I noted, I was thrilled to see Perkins and Leigh that one night.

A classic "political" moment on Cavett came when southern bigot politician Lester Maddox walked off over NFL star Jim Brown saying something that pushed his buttons...with Cavett taking Brown's side.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 8 years ago

I recall watching the shorter PBS shows in the 70's.

Woody Allen was on one of them, and said something that bugged me(paraphrased): "I would never want a hit the size of Jaws, because that would mean I appealed to too many people of the lowest common denominator."

Well, first of all, Jaws is a great movie, and often as funny as a Woody Allen film(Dreyfuss' stuff.) Second, take another look at Bananas or Everything You Wanted to Know about Sex sometimes. Woody's jokes could fall flat as often as they scored. Anyway, Woody seemed a bit snobbish on that Cavett episode.

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I've seen this with several guests. George Cukor appeared in 2 segments, as did Shelley Winters. The night I saw Leigh, Eve Arden filled the next half hour.

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Cool folks, of a different era. When I go back and watch those ABC seventies Cavetts, I'm incredibly nostalgic, yearning for "back then."

The PBS ones I liked, but I don't recall watching them as regularly. they came later in my life when I wasn't quite so invested in TV talk. Maybe I can catch up now.

[–] Gubbio (3893) 8 years ago

The "classic" Dick Cavett. 90-minute shows, often with a political bent(whereas Johnny Carson stayed away from controversy, just made gentle jokes about all politicians.) Hitchcock did one of these(in June of 1972, to promote Frenzy).....

I recall seeing Hitch with Cavett (in rerun) in what I think was a 90 minute spot. I think it's been on PBS more than once. I haven't checked YouTube.

[–] ecarle (14979) 8 years ago

I think Hitchcock only appeared that one time..promoting the big new success of Frenzy(which was barely mentioned beyond one clip and Cavett's praise), and basking in a 90-minute review of his more famous work. With positive Frenzy reviews, Hitchcock could bask and enjoy the view.

Its on YouTube. The clip "Alfred Hitchcock was afraid of his mother" I think shows the fantastic opening of the show, in which Hitchcock truly gets a "rock star's welcome"(the applause and yelling and cheering seem quite heartfelt and real) and the Arbogast murder is used to anchor a gag.

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I saw that Cavett episode when it aired, rushing home from whatever summer fun I was having that night to watch the whole thing as a young Hitchcock fan FINALLY able to see and hear the man in the flesh, at length. I didn't even recoil at "all the same answers" yet.

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Here is an esoteric thought. When I saw that Hitchcock show in 1972, 99% of Hitchcock's career was complete. Frenzy was his second to last film; only Family Plot remained.

And so, I was there at "the end" of Hitchcock's career near the beginning of my life. He sort of "froze in time" even though I've lived decades past Frenzy and Family Plot, and enjoyed 100s of other films, by other filmmakers, since then.