MovieChat Forums > Psycho (1960) Discussion > Why the Beatty Oscar Mishap was Like Psy...

Why the Beatty Oscar Mishap was Like Psycho...


..bear with me on this one.

So Warren gets the envelope and pulls out the card and sees:

Emma Stone for La La Land

...and the eyes of the Oscar theater and the world are upon him.

What to do?

He puzzles. He worries. We think its a joke(as one critic noted of this moment, "Warren Beatty's entire acting career has been based on looking puzzled and inarticulate.) Faye gets impatient.

Warren COULD announce to the world..."I think I've been given the wrong envelope. Can I request a short break?" And the issue would be over.

But he chickens out and gives the card to Faye, who ALSO reads "Emma Stone for La La Land" and elects to go with her instinct: La La Land is the name on the card.

Now Faye has announced the wrong winner...and somebody backstage IMMEDIATELY knows this(because they know the winner in advance.) And somebody is yelling "Oh My God, they read the wrong name!"

But the La La Land people are on stage, speeches are being read, panic is spreading behind the scenes...but everyone is indecisive about what to do.

And fully 2 minutes and 30 seconds later, the mistake is announced to the world.

But not before one La La Land producer, AWARE of the mistake...decides to read his whole acceptance speech and add, "We lost, by the way."

Hah. Watching this in real time without knowing what was going on, I DID think Warren Beatty was kidding around(when he looked in the envelope for "more"), and then I thought he was having a sad senior moment(he has had them in the past in recent years making speeches.)

But seeing the clip again KNOWING what's going on...boy, is it all too clear.

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And that's where Psycho comes in.

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For as one critic said, Psycho is about "indecisive people" who get killed for it...or almost killed:

Marion realizes she is only 15 miles from Fairvale, but is indecisive about going on to Sam. So she stays.

Marion realizes that there is a Mother up at the house who really hates her ("the cheap erotic fantasies of men with cheap erotic minds!")...but she is indecisive about leaving. So she stays.

Marion realizes -- in the parlor -- that Norman Bates is more than a bit off, and has a temper beneath that sweet smile. But...she stays.

Later, Arbogast is indecisive enough to call Lila with his information, and then DOUBLE BACK to the motel("I'm not entirely satisfied...") Some indecision enters into his decision to enter the house...without backup or a warrant or help. And his last bit of indecision comes before he decides to climb the stairs..

...Later Lila experiences some of this indecision when she elects to go on down to the fruit cellar instead of running out of the house while Norman is upstairs..Marion COULD be down there.

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And thus: BOTH Psycho(in fiction) and the Now Infamous Oscar Best Picture gaffe-- are about human nature and the human condition of indecision -- should I stay or should I go? Should I tell the world my suspicions about that envelope...or just go ahead and GUESS.

Tragedy ensues, both times..because the guess was wrong.

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PS. Coulda be worse: what if Denzel gave a great speech and then was told that Casey had won.... at least with Best Picture, its mainly unknown producers...

PPS. Last year's winners gave them the starpower of Leo DiCaprio. Period. This year's nominees gave them the waning starpower of Nicole Kidman, the solid starpower of Denzel, the classic starpower of Meryl, the dependable starpower of Jeff Bridges...and the star-in-disguise presence of Matt Damon(so wonderfully keeping up his feud with Jimmy Kimmel...I think its hilarious.)

But other than that...not a whole lotta big stars showed, did they? Of course, some are getting up there and not working much(Jack, Al). Some have faded -- is John Travolta much of a draw anymore? Kevin Costner is on the fade.

The Classic Toms weren't there -- Hanks nor Cruise(though Hanks showed up in a clip of the Life Achievement awards.) No Julia. No Sandra. Neither of our two new ones -- J-Law and Chris Pratt(they of the failed but interesting movie.) No Brad Pitt, no Johnny Depp(marital troubles, I guess.) No George Clooney. No Will Smith. No Jamie Foxx.

The biggest star was the Rock, of whom Jimmy Kimmel noted, "he's a former wrestler who is now the highest paid star in the world...which should put this in perspective." Indeed...remember that's where Trump came from.

Speaking of Trump, he and his policies got their black eyes all night long , but I wonder: did any number of the stars above -- who are all certainly not of Trump's politics -- "take a powder" on controversy? It seemed left to a diverse and international crowd of semi-known actors(but good ones) and filmmakers to carry the load.

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quote]But other than that...not a whole lotta big stars showed, did they?[/quote]
Now you mention it, things were a little star-light. No star-directors seemed to be in attendance either (No Spielberg, Scorsese, Tarantino, Cameron, Cuaron, Eastwood, Bigelow, Spike Jonze Spike Lee, PTA, Wes Anderson, etc.)

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That's true, too. Clint remains "double trouble" -- a legendary star and a working director(Sully this year), who rarely shows up but also means something when he does.

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One thing that did strike me about this year is that one way of interpreting things was that there really was a changing of the Oscar guard going on: the two main directors competing (Chazelle and Barry Jackson) were both very new and young, and a new crop of future awards stalwarts were emerging. Mahershala Ali who won for Supporting Actor in Moonlight was also good in a small role in Hidden Figures. He stands to be a perennial nominee. Ditto Janelle Monae who was also in both those films. She wasn't nom'd this time, but (formerly a Prince-like musical multi-talent) she was excellent in both parts. She *will* get a few leading opportunities now and Oscar will be watching her. And people like Chris Pine announced themselves this year - he didn't get a nom. for Hell or High Water, but he jolly well could have been nom'd. Look for him to be seriously in the running for something soon.

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Good points here. The joke could be "this isn't the Oscars, its the independent film awards" but the studio stars of tomorrow are the indie people of today. And age issues will come up. I recall when Spielberg, Lucas, and Scorsese were "the movie brats" who gently shoved Hitchcock and Wilder off the stage.

Chris Pine needs to separate out from the star Chris of the moment (Chris Pratt, somewhat damaged goods after Passengers and maybe too much in something mundane in The Mag Seven) and Chris Evans(who was a most lackluster Oscar presenter this year). Hell or High Water will help do it. I'm worried though: he's Wonder Woman's boyfriend this summer, and she looks like she could beat him up. On the other hand, Chris Pine dueted with Streisand on a song last year, he's a "multi-talent."

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And in the 'not going anywhere' camp: Charlize Theron. Stars with the best genes for 500 please Alex.

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Ha. Yeah, watching Theron I realized its kind of not happening for her. She got HER Oscar years ago for "going ugly" as the female serial killer(Ebert went nuts for that performance, and he's been gone awhile), and seems to be struggling on through. Mad Max was HER movie in many ways but still...no traction. (Her willingness to look pretty bad and dismembered didn't help.) I see she's in the next Fast/Furious movie as Vin Diesel's villainous love interest. Paycheck, nothing else.

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But other than that...not a whole lotta big stars showed, did they?

Now you mention it, things were a little star-light. No star-directors seemed to be in attendance either (No Spielberg, Scorsese, Tarantino, Cameron, Cuaron, Eastwood, Bigelow, Spike Jonze Spike Lee, PTA, Wes Anderson, etc.)

One thing that did strike me about this year is that one way of interpreting things was that there really was a changing of the Oscar guard going on: the two main directors competing (Chazelle and Barry Jenkins) were both very new and young, and a new crop of future awards stalwarts were emerging. Mahershala Ali who won for Supporting Actor in Moonlight was also good in a small role in Hidden Figures. He stands to be a perennial nominee. Ditto Janelle Monae who was also in both those films. She wasn't nom'd this time, but (formerly a Prince-like musical multi-talent) she was excellent in both parts. She *will* get a few leading opportunities now and Oscar will be watching her. And people like Chris Pine announced themselves this year - he didn't get a nom. for Hell or High Water, but he jolly well could have been nom'd. Look for him to be seriously in the running for something soon.

And in the 'not going anywhere' camp: Charlize Theron. Stars with the best genes for 500 please Alex.

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@9. Wow, thanks for that link! What to do? What to do? filmboards.com *has* to become another destination for people looking for a post-IMDb home. IMDb abandoning its messageboards has been like the collapse of an empire and now there's just complete, though productive chaos!

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Hmmm...with that Saturday Night Live thread...and that Wright's 1000 movies thread...

I'm at a loss. Can we start posting there?

I'll keep coming here and lets see what happens next.

IMDb's management probably doesn't miss the boards but must be wondering if it made a mistake that hasn't properly manifested its impact yet.

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Just read in this morning's paper that the two PWC representatives present Sunday night have been permanently removed from any future Oscar duties. This public relations bandage for PWC's black eye is, I'd guess, as far as any punishment will go. But the man who handed Beatty the wrong envelope will henceforth be a party to enduring Oscar lore, and I'm willing to bet that, say, 20 years from now, he'll be claiming his role in that history: "Remember when the wrong Best Picture winner was announced? Well, I was the guy responsible for that."

Considering how long that accounting house has been handling the awards (somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 years, I think), they've had a remarkable track record, and human fallibility being what it is, it's probably a miracle this is their first big slip-up. Just as well it was the beaut that it was. If it had happened on the Sound Mixing award, for instance, who'd remember even 5 years from now?

These gasp-inducing moments are really good for the entire enterprise in the long run: Goldie Hawn announcing the vocal Oscar refusenik as the winner ("Oh my god, it's George C. Scott!"); Sasheen Littlefeather and the streaker a few years later; earlier occurrences such as the L.A. paper that jumped the gun and printed the winners in its early evening edition before they'd been handed out (in the days when those results were still furnished to the dailies as a courtesy, and the last time it was done); a presenter announcing the Best Director winner with, "Come and get it, Frank," and poor nominee Capra getting halfway to the stage before realizing the "Frank" in question was Lloyd; Capra himself getting the bright idea of gathering all the directing nominees onstage for the announcement (Hitchcock among them) like beauty pageant contestants only to discover the winner was the one no-show; Claudette Colbert being snatched moments before boarding a train and whisked to the Biltmore Hotel to accept her unexpected It Happened One Night award in her traveling suit and so on.

In the end, it all merely adds to the cachet.

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Just read in this morning's paper that the two PWC representatives present Sunday night have been permanently removed from any future Oscar duties.

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Hmm..both of them. A woman and a man were assigned the tasks; evidently it was the man who made the mistake. But I guess its a "team thing."

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This public relations bandage for PWC's black eye is, I'd guess, as far as any punishment will go.

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Once it was determined that it was the man's fault, this entered into things: punishment? We're all adults here, and as Jimmy Kimmel said "its just an awards show"(no, Jimmy...THE awards show) and...that sounds about right to me.

But it has gotten worse: the man and woman have gotten death threats and need security. The accounting company is letting us know this(including photos of the man's wife with her new bodyguard) as a means, I suppose, of letting us know that punishment is being meted out...by those wild and crazy psychos out here in 'net land. I mean, death threats for WHAT sin?

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But the man who handed Beatty the wrong envelope will henceforth be a party to enduring Oscar lore, and I'm willing to bet that, say, 20 years from now, he'll be claiming his role in that history: "Remember when the wrong Best Picture winner was announced? Well, I was the guy responsible for that."

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And he's a self-professed Matt Damon lookalike, too. I expect the horror of it will shift into comedy...and the entertainment press will conduct yearly/decade-ly "check ins" on him. He's famous now.

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Considering how long that accounting house has been handling the awards (somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 years, I think), they've had a remarkable track record, and human fallibility being what it is, it's probably a miracle this is their first big slip-up.

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Exactly what I was thinking. They reviewed Oscar history and found that the closest was Laurence Olivier announcing the Best Picture winner(Amadeus) without naming the other four nominees and it, first. That's not as bad as this one.

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Just as well it was the beaut that it was. If it had happened on the Sound Mixing award, for instance, who'd remember even 5 years from now?

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Absolutely. That would have just been a generic "Oscar goof" of which there have been many over the years.

Indeed, the Oscars as a live show used to have all SORTS of gaffes, usually in the presenters bad readings of names(that is now solved by playing the presenters perfect, pre-recorded enunciations.)

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These gasp-inducing moments are really good for the entire enterprise in the long run: Goldie Hawn announcing the vocal Oscar refusenik as the winner ("Oh my god, it's George C. Scott!"); Sasheen Littlefeather and the streaker a few years later; earlier occurrences such as the L.A. paper that jumped the gun and printed the winners in its early evening edition before they'd been handed out (in the days when those results were still furnished to the dailies as a courtesy, and the last time it was done); a presenter announcing the Best Director winner with, "Come and get it, Frank," and poor nominee Capra getting halfway to the stage before realizing the "Frank" in question was Lloyd; Capra himself getting the bright idea of gathering all the directing nominees onstage for the announcement (Hitchcock among them) like beauty pageant contestants only to discover the winner was the one no-show; Claudette Colbert being snatched moments before boarding a train and whisked to the Biltmore Hotel to accept her unexpected It Happened One Night award in her traveling suit and so on.

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All great. I think I love "come and get it Frank" the best. Though the back-to-back Littlefeather and streaker incidents in the 70's suggested the whole show was collapsing.

Like "come and get it Frank," but "personal":

Anthony Perkins was up for Best Supporting Actor in 1956. Friendly Persuasion.

He heard announced "and the winner is ..Anthony..."

...and he got up and...it was finished "Quinn." (for Lust for Life.)

But no one saw him get up evidently. Back then, the camera wasn't on him. Or hell, maybe he didn't get up at all. I may have misrembered that part.

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In the end, it all merely adds to the cachet.

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Yeah, I think so. Years from now. In the "immediate," it carries a lot of unfortunate baggage, it seems.

Someone has written that Beatty and Dunaway should be invited back next year to get a "do-over" with a new Best Picture. I wonder if they will accept?

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PS. Speaking of Bonnie and Clyde, I had dreamed of some sort of "Salute to 1967 Best Pictures" of which Warren and Faye would just be a part. But...didn't happen. No Dustin Hoffman for The Graduate, there. No Sidney Poitier(age 90) for Guess Who 's Coming to Dinner and In the Heat of the Night. No, uh...Samantha Eggar for Dr. Doolittle. And no Gene Hackman and Estelle Parsons from B and C(is Michael J. Pollard still alive?)

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Sorry, ec, that I didn't catch this PS earlier. I rather like that idea, not only for '67, but 50th anniversaries could be a regular feature along with the In Memoriam. I can think of two things that might put a damper on enthusiasm for any such thing, however: complaints about too many time-consuming segments already, and the likely dearth of living participants.

To answer your question, yes, Pollard's still around, and it's quite remarkable that the rest of the major players are too. Of the smaller supporting roles, only Denver Pyle, Dub Taylor and Gene Wilder have passed. Even Evans Evans is still with us.

I had to proofread that last sentence carefully. Although correct, "Even Evans Evans" just don't look right, huh?

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Sorry, ec, that I didn't catch this PS earlier.

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That's OK. Shorter posts are the rule around here. I'm splitting stuff up.

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I rather like that idea, not only for '67, but 50th anniversaries could be a regular feature along with the In Memoriam.

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In Memoriam is always great. And this year there were some great clips reviews of past winners coming up to get their awards and some great movie clips.

The Apartment clips of MacLaine were the best, but that cry-your-eyes-out clip from Madision County is very subversive to me: how many women screamed to Meryl "Leave your husband!" when her hand was on that truck doorknob. And she doesn't. And I've had some tricky conversations with married men and women about that scene. A scene which, I might note, was evidently edited and overseen for Eastwood by Steven Spielberg! Word.)

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I would like to note that this years show producer, Michael DeLuca, announced that he wanted "more clips from the past on the show." That went against recent years demands that such clips NOT be on the show. I think they SHOULD be on the show. We are meant to celebrate all of movie history at the Oscars, I think.

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I can think of two things that might put a damper on enthusiasm for any such thing, however: complaints about too many time-consuming segments already, and the likely dearth of living participants.

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As for time consuming...cut out any dance numbers and dumb stunts like the tour bus waste of time.

Dearth of living participants is the problem. Think of it with Bonnie and Clyde though: all five main leads are still alive. To see them on stage would have been great. Especially Gene Hackman, who has now been gone from movies for almost 15 years.

People live longer nowadays. Hopefully future 50-year later casts will be more available?

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To answer your question, yes, Pollard's still around, and it's quite remarkable that the rest of the major players are too.

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Amazing. Though one worries: around doing WHAT? Estelle Parsons was on Rosanne and other shows. Hackman's rich and retired.

Something weird I remember: Michael J. Pollard "starring" in...of all things...a Playboy "comic book still frame layout" where he interacted with various naked women. Around 1968 I think, when I "snuck" views of the magazine.

I recall this weird frame by frame:

FRAME ONE:
Pollard and beautiful librarian in glasses and dress:
Pollard: Can I see you without your glasses?
NEXT FRAME:
Pollard: You certainly look different without your glasses. (She's wearing no glasses and no clothes.)

Yes, Michael J. Pollard made the most of HIS 15 minutes of fame.

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Of the smaller supporting roles, only Denver Pyle, Dub Taylor and Gene Wilder have passed.

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Gene Wilder. Bittersweet to remember he was in that too. And very much "Gene Wilder" in it.

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Even Evans Evans is still with us.

I had to proofread that last sentence carefully. Although correct, "Even Evans Evans" just don't look right, huh?

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Pretty hilarious!

Some trivia on Evans Evans. She was married, I think all the way to his death, to director John Frankenheimer(The Manchurian Candidate, Seven Days in May, Black Sunday.)

And she is in the first scene of the ONLY episode of The Alfred Hitchcock Hour(that is, of the HOUR shows) directed by Hitchcock himself: "I Saw the Whole Thing."

So Evans Evans was directed by Alfred Hitchcock, and in Bonnie and Clyde, and married to John Frankenheimer.

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One additional Oscar gaffe I actually saw was in 1964, when Sammy Davis presented the awards for both best original and adapted score. He read the nominees in one category, then opened the wrong envelope and read the winner of the other category. He quickly corrected this, and then, as if nothing had gone wrong, proceeded to read the nominees in the second category, and had the aplomb to smile and say: "Guess who won".

And this year's incident once and for all squashes the urban rumor that Marisa Tomei did not win the BSA but Jack Palance accidentally announced her being that she was the last listed nominee. They would obviously not have allowed that to go uncorrected.

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Part of the problem which I haven't seen addressed is the predictability of the Oscars in recent years. Before the BP was announced, all of the acting, writing and directing awards had been widely predicted correctly. And LLL was the overwhelming favorite for BP. Faye may have realized this, and thought "what the heck? Everyone already knows the winner is LLL so let's go with it." Had, for example, the card said Casey Affleck for Manchester By the Sea, it likely would have given her pause.

And as some pundits have noted, this completes the trifecta of the presidential election, the Super Bowl, and now the Oscars. There are no more sure things.

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