I watched the commentary, and I realize that the makers had to get it checked out with Mexican censors and avoid including any extremely offensive things about Mexicans. However, I can't help but wonder if some Mexicans resent the message of the film that the Americans are heroes who come to rescue Mexicans. I do think the film plays to American vanity about our country and culture. At the beginning when Brynner and McQueen are taking the hearse to Boot Hill, you see the Mexicans watching them with the wide-eyed attitude: "Wow, what heroes these Americans are!" I assume some Mexicans (and Americans) laugh at that.
Another thing that struck me about the film is that it's almost a recruitment film for the NRA. There are no problems that won't be solved by having guns. I suppose it's true in the context of the story: apparently those Mexican villagers had no police force to protect them. But as a general message, I consider it pretty dangerous. More guns aren't what is needed in this country.
"Extremism in the pursuit of moderation is no vice."
This was the 19th Century at the end of the Old West era, and defending that village from bandits was the only job the Magnificent Seven could get outside of "range detective" (ie, shooting rustlers and homesteaders) or bounty hunter. And anyone who thinks singing "Kumbaya" to Calvera and his gang would solve anything wouldn't get far.
Singing Kumbya to any of the drug gangs in Mexico and the US won't work either. As for an NRA recruiting poster? Nah, the six o'clock news has that one covered, but its understandible why some folks would be offended..not me...I own weapons.
But hey they are doing a remake with Denzel Washington as Chris.....Chris Pratt is rumored to be in it. Gads I hope they don't go PC like the TV series did. Gunsmoke may have been the last Western on TV that I liked....Lonesome Dove elsewhere. I'm an old woman and I want to see sassy whores and tortured gunmen not PC heroes and virtuous newswomen covering the facts...just the facts. Give me my cowboys and Indians (no Indians in Mag Seven) plus they hired half of Mexico to be in the movie as extras and assistants. I know one of the bad guys in Mag Seven went on to appear in a number of American shows including The High Chapparel.
If you want to show your disapproval don't go see the Denzel remake....but I'll be the old broad front and center with my popcorn.
I thought, after reading the first paragraph of your post, tgemberl, that there may be an interesting discussion in it. But I'm sorry to say you blew it with the second paragraph.
"Another thing that struck me about the film is that it's almost a recruitment film for the NRA. There are no problems that won't be solved by having guns." Er, how shall I explain this... this movie is a Western. Yes, a Western. Which to the best of my knowledge is characterized by guys solving problems with guns. From actually reading up on history, it seems that sort of thing happened quite a lot back then.
"apparently those Mexican villagers had no police force to protect them." I won't even grace this with an answer. History books are a great source of information. Please do educate yourself.
"But as a general message, I consider it pretty dangerous." Why? This movie is set in the 19th century. Tons of action/cop movies set in present day do the same thing. Should they be prohibited nowadays because their "message" isn't socially conscious/politically correct?
Jessica Rabbit "I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way."
Jessica, You're right that people depended on guns more in the 19th century. So I shouldn't fault the movie for that. Though I do kind of wonder if Americans really rescued Mexicans very often at that time. That was the main focus of my comment.
What I meant with the last section is just that I wouldn't want people of today to think the solution to problems is always going to be arming yourself. One of the big problems of America today is that too many people think guns are sacred. I say if you really need one to feel safe, go ahead and carry one. But that should be a temporary problem. Don't say that the right to bear arms is sacred. I believe the 2nd Amendment is an archaic thing we need to get rid of. Maybe it made sense 200 or even 100 years ago, but it doesn't today.
"Extremism in the pursuit of moderation is no vice."
Okay, points taken. In starting this thread I was trying to show why for me, this is only a good movie. To be a great movie, I have to be inspired by it.
"Extremism in the pursuit of moderation is no vice."
Did you know that Westerns were President Kennedy's favorite movies and he was assassinated and he was my favorite President! I WILL SAY AGAIN for the time period this was made 1959-60 it was how people thought. We are much more sophisticated now and it would not wash. I watch this movie and take myself back to the time it was made.
Have you ever watched Steve McQueen's WDOA? He fought just about every episode if he did not think what they were doing was "real" so for the time it was GREAT so stop your belly aching!
I am speaking of our level for an intricate story line. People will not just settle anymore, they want more excitement plus action and it better look real! Or it won't fly and the movie will be panned.
I think you're right that you have to judge a film by its own time. I find it inconsistent that people will criticize the B movies of the 50's and 60's for looking unrealistic, and then speak with reverence of King Kong in the early 30's, which looked even less realistic. I guess it's just that if a film has come to be seen as a "classic," people overlook that. Here's a thread where I and some others talk about that problem:
But to me the sign of a great movie is when it still has its impact on me in spite of its age. So to say that "this is the way people thought at the time" doesn't quite satisfy me. But as I said, I still consider The Magnificent Seven a good movie. I just don't consider it great. To me, The Searchers (1959) is a great western.
"Extremism in the pursuit of moderation is no vice."
One of the least sophisticated things anyone can assume is that we are more sophisticated today than people were in the past. It's simply ignorant and childish.
I don't see the film as "Americans rescuing Mexicans". I see it as more, "Professional Gunmen Rescuing Farmers". The gunmen are mostly American- with TWO Mexicans in their ranks- and the farmers are indeed Mexicans, but so are the villains, after all. There is no theme that Mexicans are helpless and must be rescued by Americans, but there is a theme that, without help, farmers are no match for armed, experienced and ruthless outlaws.
However, I can't help but wonder if some Mexicans resent the message of the film that the Americans are heroes who come to rescue Mexicans.
No, the message is that the village hired gunfighters to teach them how to fight back and to help them drive off the bandits. As one of them says to the old man, "we know how to grow things, we don't know how to kill." To which them old man says, "Then learn...or die."
The Mexican farmers are being preyed upon by other Mexicans with guns. The "Seven" are hired mercenaries. Not sure where you get the idea from that the villagers look upon them as heroes. They hid their women from them, and the father of the one girl forbade his daughter from getting involved with one of them, referring to them as "brutes" and "cruel".
In the end, the Seven and the villagers are just human beings fighting side by side out of mutual respect for each other and a sense of right and wrong. It had nothing to do with your incredibly shallow and juvenile assessment of the story as American heroes rescuing Mexicans. The Mexicans are not portrayed as weak cowards that need to be saved. Yes, they are afraid, but they still have the courage to act. The "heroes" are flawed, directionless shells of men who hold themselves in pretty low esteem. In many ways, they are the ones being saved, not the village.
Another thing that struck me about the film is that it's almost a recruitment film for the NRA.
Geez, is this the first Western you've ever seen? Do you actually know any history, or do you just like bringing up the NRA in a pejorative sense any chance you get?
There are no problems that won't be solved by having guns. I suppose it's true in the context of the story: apparently those Mexican villagers had no police force to protect them.
Um, no...the ONLY problem guns are meant to solve here is to stop thieves from robbing the village, which keeps them in poverty. And they DO have a police force to protect them...the gunfighters they hired, as well as themselves.
But as a general message, I consider it pretty dangerous. More guns aren't what is needed in this country.
You "consider it pretty dangerous" for people to be able to defend themselves from criminals that have guns? Let's hope you never find yourself in a situation where you are forced to question that personal prejudice.
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If there is any criticism of this film compared to Seven Samurai in regards to Mexicans and the (mostly) American gunslingers compared to peasants vs. samurai is that it lacks the class and power structure dynamic. Samurai served feudal rulers and were thus near the top of the social structure. Gunslingers, by contrast, are on the fringes of society even in the States, and have even less status in Mexico. The fear felt by the peasants for the samurai as well as the bandits has more resonance than the fear felt by the peasants for the gunslingers as well as the bandits. In Japan, a samurai could legally kill a peasant for not showing deference, or indeed for any reason. I'm sure Gringo gunslingers did kill Mexican peasants on occasion, but it isn't nearly the same thing as the samurai, who frequently took supplies from the villagers during the many Civil Wars going on in Japan at that time. Again, I'm sure this was done to them once in a while by Gringo gunslingers, but not nearly to the same scale. They had much more to fear from bandits and their own government than they did from Gringos. Since this was a 1960, it was unlikely that they were going to seriously explore the historical between issues of America and Mexico, because that would involve critiquing to some extent the Mexican American War, Manifest Destiny, and Western Expansion. What we did get was a transposition from Japan to America that only partially fit culturally in the transfer, or at least wasn't as potent.
Funny you ask this. I am wondering if anyone from Mexico will respond. In the meantime, I can say that I saw this movie playing at a theater in Puerto Vallerta while my family and I were on vacation there in 1979 (re-release playing with another Charles Bronson film, "Breakheart Pass"). We were there mainly because of the heat (the house we rented had no AC) and the theater was first rate and air conditioned! But, aside from that, the (99% hispanic) audience LOVED IT! They laughed, they cheered, they screamed, they imitated the stupid guy making the "haw haw" laugh. There didn't appear to be any discussion over the ideas of vigilante justice and guns protecting them, etc. But then, my Spanish is not very good...
No *beep* right? Maybe the OP would be happier watching movies about puppies, in one of those countries where they pretend to be way more open-minded and sophisticated than Americans (but aren't remotely).
I'm sure he'll learn once he gets out of college and figures out that women older than about twenty-five are looking for real men who don't believe or spout such nonsense and are capable of seeing meaning in films instead of just the surface ("Americans saving Mexicans, oh why are Americans so sure we're superior, waaah! It's not like our freedoms, opportunities, and lifestyle are unsurpassed by any other nation! Wah wah wah, I want everyone to think it sucks here because I'm so privileged I don't know how good I have it, woe is me! I just want everybody to like me because I have no real convictions or inner strength, waaah!").
Moron. No wonder he doesn't like this movie--it's about people who have courage and integrity.
***** People said love was blind, but what they meant was that love blinded them.
Yul did ask them why not call in the Federales. The farmers said they did, but the police can't hang out for several weeks waiting for the banditos to show up. And the farmers were impressed by the gunfighters because they were simple farmers, not because they were Mexicans.