MovieChat Forums > Rio Bravo (1959) Discussion > Rio Bravo + El Dorado = Perfect Western

Rio Bravo + El Dorado = Perfect Western

posted 19 years ago by amiNotAwake
26 replies | jump to latest

I wish Rio Bravo and El Dorado could be combined into one film. I would have Dean Martin as the drunk, not Mitchum. Without a doubt adorable James Caan and his character (Mississipi) as the "sidekick", in place of Ricki Nelson (Colorado). Ricki Nelson was unforgivingly lame in Rio Bravo. He gave his character no personality; his acting certainly wasn't worthwile. It makes one wonder why he was even cast in that role. I definitely would've had "Stumpy" instead of the "indian fighter". Even though Stumpy couldn't move very fast he was absolutely hilarious! The plot for Rio Bravo had much more emotion and likability about it except I like Mississipi's part of the story in El Dorado. I loved how he couldn't aim a gun! It's gut-splittingly funny when he practically misses the guy running out of the church and John Wayne asks if he hit him. "Well, I hit the sign and the sign hit him." Or when Martin tells Wayne in Rio Bravo that the guy was limping when he ran off and Wayne says he was limping when he came.
John Wayne's love interest is better in El Dorado. Something about "Feathers" in Rio Bravo bugs me. There are some scenes in each film you would absolutely have to keep. The previously mentioned one is a must. The one where John Wayne kisses Stumpy, Mitchum bathing and everyone giving him soap, Stumpy with the dynamite, and in a more serious aspect the money in the spittoon before Dean Martin shoots the guy. I always loved that scene because it's full of tense emotion.
I wonder if it would even be possible to create this collage of characters, scenes, and stories?! It's nice to think of the possibilities.

Also, anybody got suggestions for good movies with James Caan in a well seen role? (Besides Brian's Song) He is one of the most attractive older actors I've seen. Plus his acting was good. hehe.

"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] c-huddleston 19 years ago

Jar_head2, I think you're thinking of the wrong scene. The scene classics4me was referring to was after Ward Bond's character is shot and Dean Martin and John Wayne go into the bar after the shooter. One of the characters in the bar tosses a dollar into a spitoon and suggests that Dean needs a drink... it's shortly after this he sees the blood from the guy he shot at earlier and takes him out.

[–] amiNotAwake 19 years ago

Yes c-huddleston that was the scene to which I was referring.

I apologize for not being more specific.

" I and Velma ain't dumb! "

[–] Tresix 19 years ago

I like EL DORADO just a little bit more. It's shorter and doesn't have the chip on its shoulder that RIO BRAVO has.

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Here I am, stuck in the middle with you!

[–] c-huddleston 19 years ago

Chip on its shoulder??????

[–] Tresix 19 years ago

Well, Howard Hawks and John Wayne DID make RIO BRAVO in response to HIGH NOON. Since HIGH NOON is considered a classic and RIO BRAVO is considered merely good, I think of it as "having a chip on its shoulder". EL DORADO, on the other hand, seems like Hawks and Wayne just wanted to kind of have fun. Even though it uses the same plot as RIO BRAVO, it doesn't seem to take itself as seriously. Thus, everyone seems to be having a good time. Plus, I got more of a sense of the villains from ED than RB. They actually seemed like characters than just cardboard figures from the previous film.

s to the left of me.
s to the right.
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you!

[–] c-huddleston 19 years ago

Rio Bravo came out about 7 years after High Noon. That's an interesting response time.

Rio Bravo is considered a classic western - not merely good. Okay it has its rough edges but no more so than El Dorado. Get rid of Ricky Nelson and replace with James Caan, and you're more than halfway there.

Most people regard El Dorado as the weaker film - but still good fun. Different strokes, I guess.

[–] Tresix 19 years ago

It's usually the case with some movies, they aren't appreciated when they first come out but become classics in later decades (IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE, NIGHT OF THE HUNTER and, more recently, BLADE RUNNER, are prime examples of this). I think EL DORADO resonates with me more because of Robert Mitchum in the drunk role. I think Dude is probably Dean Martin's best acting job in any movie, but Mitchum brought a little more pathos. Plus, we get a glimpse of Harrah before he starts hitting the bottle.

s to the left of me.
s to the right.
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you!

[–] c-huddleston 19 years ago

I see your point about seeing J.P. before he was a drunk, but I felt that Martin's performance was stronger overall. However I would have preferred James Caan over Ricky Nelson, who was just a little plank-like by comparison.

Not sure about Blade Runner - it was very popular in the UK and has continued to grow in stature since the release of the Director's Cut. The original release was excellent, but most people seem to prefer the Director's Cut. I like both for different reasons.

[–] Tresix 19 years ago

When BLADE RUNNER originally came out in 1982 in the States, it crashed landed at the box office. It wasn't until it came out on video and began getting showings at midnight shows that it began to gain cult status then into outright classic. The director's cut was a boon to it.

s to the left of me.
s to the right.
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you!

[–] njshorewriter 19 years ago

I liked Ricky Nelson and Dean Martin (accompanied by Walter Brennan) performing what turned out to be one of the earliest music videos. Little Suzie & My Rifle, Pony and Me.
Of course a few years later Hendrix blew them off the stage...

...now roll that beautiful bean footage

[–] John_T_Chance 13 years ago

I still don't like Blade Runner, however but think Rio Bravo is the classic to end most classics.

[–] desperate_van 19 years ago

Ricky Nelson was cast in the movie because at the time he was a massive rock'n'roll star, and was used to boost box office attendances with the kids who may otherwise not have bothered. I was one of those kids! Having said that, he wasn't that bad. Dean Martin was undeniably brilliant.

El Dorado was a blatant re-make of Rio Bravo, there's nothing like a second bite at the cherry, even to the point where the characters were inter-changeable. (Mississippi / Colorado)

For my money I prefer RB as an 'original' but ED was, and still is, a damned good movie.

[–] c-huddleston 19 years ago

"For my money I prefer RB as an 'original' but ED was, and still is, a damned good movie."

Couldn't agree more.

[–] njshorewriter 19 years ago

I noticed High Noon mentioned here. High Noon is a Classic Film and its a piece of Art. Much like The Searchers is a Classic Film and work of art.
Rio Bravo and El Dorado are great films, classic entertainment but not in the same league as those mentioned above.

...now roll that beautiful bean footage

[–] amiNotAwake 19 years ago

I disagree that "Rio Bravo" is not in the same league as "High Noon" and "The Searchers".

Rio Bravo is an excellent film with a superb story and tremendous acting.
It may have more of a Hollywoodized look compared to High Noon or The Searchers but could hold its own against them any day.

[–] njshorewriter 19 years ago

I guess its all in how you look at it. For me, High Noon and The Seachers represent films which took risks and took new directions. Rio Bravo, on the other hand is one of the most entertaining westerns I have ever enjoyed. All great films... we agree on that I'm sure.

...now roll that beautiful bean footage

[–] shaolin-master 19 years ago

High noon was boring and the story not very interesting...
On the other hand Rio Bravo is very entertaining (despite Ricky Nelson and the love story wich was kind of lame too)...
The best western of all times is The Good The Bad And The Ugly!!!

[–] njshorewriter 19 years ago

High Noon, an unusual morality play featuring the examination of human relations, reactions and society in a time of crisis and set in the American West of the later 1800's and filmed in the real time of the story line...

Cutting edge film making for its time... not boring to me, in fact many of the classic films made since can trace roots back to this classic. Same goes for The Searchers. Anyone who doesn't know this, just hasn't been told yet so now you know.

Rio Bravo, El Dorado... timeless entertainment classics in themselves.

...now roll that beautiful bean footage

[–] jediharr 19 years ago

Yeah, why is everybody hating on Ricky Nelson? The boy did good, and without him I wouldn't have "Cindy" stuck in my head.

[–] dgcrow 19 years ago

Nelson's singing wasn't half bad, but his acting was ALL bad!

[–] dadoo4050 18 years ago

May be so, but then there's the atrosity that is Glen Campbell in "True Grit."

[–] c-huddleston 18 years ago

Amen.

[–] dadoo4050 18 years ago

Also, unlike Nelson in "Rio Bravo," Campbell wasn't given an opportunity to sing or play guitar, both skills at which he was/is quite remarkable.

[–] John_T_Chance 13 years ago

I love Rio Bravo far more than El Dorado.

Because...

[–] John_T_Chance 13 years ago

James Caan > Ricki Nelson

Other then that, Rio Bravo is better at everything else and the cast from the female lead through the gruff side kick is better acted and written.