MovieChat Forums > North by Northwest (1959) Discussion > Good News: North by Northwest RE-APPEAR...

Good News: North by Northwest RE-APPEARS On HBO Max -- But Not on the TCM Hub

posted 2 years ago by ecarle (14979)
18 replies | jump to latest

https://moviechat.org/tt0053125/North-by-Northwest/640cece36cd1714ae243cfd5/North-by-Northwest-Disappears-from-the-TCM-Hub-on-HBO-Max

(Thread above to "what happened" -- North by Northwest disappeared from HBO Max after being there permanently due to its status as a "Turner Classic Movies" staple.)

After being away for -- what? -- a few weeks? North by Northwest is back on the line-up at HBO Max.

Recall that NXNW , unlike movies that "rotate on and off streaming channels" seemed to have been given a permanent berth at HBO Max because TCM owns NXNW as their "flagship Hitchcock movie." And then NXNW disappeared.

Well, it is back on HBO Max and it looks like it has been placed in a NEW hub:

"100 Years of Warner Brothers" movies.

Which is pretty rich, seeing as Hitchcock made NXNW in 1959 for Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer! Indeed, the movie stands as Hitchcock's ONLY MGM film.

Indeed, the movie magnificently incorporates Leo the Roaring MGM lion into Saul Bass's state of the art opening credits(and builds that roar into Bernard Herrmann's rising, rousing climb to an explosive fandango for the adventure.)

TCM owns MGM movies, but it seems that some of the MGM catalog was bought by "Time Warner" and so NXNW has been going out for years as a Warner Brothers DVD.

And thus, now NXNW can appear on HBO Max as part of the "100 Years of Warner Brothers" promotion.

Doesn't seem very fair, but then Hitchcock's movies often have changed owners.

ALL of his Paramount movies except To Catch A Thief are now owned by Universal (where Hitchcock made his final studio home and consolidated power through studio chief Lew Wasserman.)

And here's a weird one: it looks like Disney( the all engulfing and devouring Disney) now owns 20th Century Fox for Hitchcock's one movie for Fox(Lifeboat) is a Disney movie?!!!

Hitchcock wanted to film a thriller at Disneyland around 1962 but Uncle Walt refused, citing "that disgusting movie Psycho" as reason.

Well, now Disney has a Hitchcock movie all its own.

PS. I was thinking about how Warner Brothers itself had various owners over the years. Two classics of 1969 and 1971 were from Warners, but they do not open with the "Warner Brothers Shield" of old OR with the 1970s "modern wb" logo that lasted about a decade(The Exorcist had it.)

1969's "The Wild Bunch" opens with a "Warner Brothers 7 Arts Logo"

1971's "Dirty Harry" opens with a "Warner Brothers -- A Kinney Company" logo.

"Gone but not forgotten.."

[–] bertnernie (43) 2 years ago

Was just reading your other thread about NXNW removal from HBO before stumbling on this update. I'll reply here to some of the points since this is the newer thread.

Notably, Netflix still runs its DVD rental service (NXNW is available). More importantly, the DVD rental often has movies you cannot find streaming. Sadly, because of how popular streaming has become the rental service is a fraction of what it once was and I don't think they're replacing damaged or lost copies. So if a user in Fairbanks, AK wants to hold onto the last remaining copy for a while, then you're waiting on their time table.

Some worthwhile examples I can think of regarding streaming:
- HBO pulls Westworld to avoid paying residuals to cast/crew
- HBO previously pulled Gone With the Wind until a preface was added
- Netflix & Hulu pulled episodes of Community & It's Always Sunny due to episodes labeled offensive
- 2021 lawsuits against Apple for content and user access removal. Here apple said no reasonable person would expect when they click 'buy' that it means they have indefinite access to it.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/04/apple-faces-class-action-lawsuit-over-its-definition-of-the-word-buy/

Point being that with streaming, you are at their whim in terms of content you can access.

Reading your concerns in the other thread about playing movies on DVD and risk scratches, I would highly recommend you look into digital copy of your movies. Physical storage still has its place, particularly as another medium of preserving films or other media, but having a digital backup lets that film persevere in the unfortunate case of the disc getting lost, breaking, scratches, or wear/tear damage over the years.

[–] bertnernie (43) 2 years ago

Digital backup methods are very easy. Disk space/storage is now VERY cheap and can hold a lot of DVD and blu-ray movies. You can probably get a stand-alone external DVD drive to use to rip your discs to a hard drive so you have a copy and not have to worry about disc damages.

Following up on the point of streaming risks...

I think it's important we preserve all the media, good and bad, beautiful and ugly. Regarding Gone with the wind & the TV shows I listed - they were pulled due to racist imagery. I think pulling them does more harm than good. In the case of streaming giants making these decisions, we can end up in a world where we lose a dialogue or conversation regarding what is right or wrong. I think understanding context of times is important. This gets to a bigger point where we end up with only things that are deemed appropriate for all to watch.

To draw a similarity to your comments on NXNW, we can also end up in a sort of copyright/ownership hell, where Company X owns the title, but Y signed a contract for distribution rights, and Z had ownership of streaming and no one will compromise on who can release the title. I can't remember exactly what film, but I believe this situation has occurred exactly so that the film sits in a kind of no man's land. I believe this might be the case for some of the early Godzilla films with various subs/dubs/release. I think it's unfortunate this situation could arise and we may only have a few still images of a film or show that is locked away because some entity can't or won't release it and we're left to discuss or read about it.

In these cases, physical storage allows people to still access media that is basically now only a part of history.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Was just reading your other thread about NXNW removal from HBO before stumbling on this update. I'll reply here to some of the points since this is the newer thread.

---

Some very informative aspects to your response. Thank you!

---

Notably, Netflix still runs its DVD rental service (NXNW is available).

---

I'm starting to feel that NXNW is one of those movies that will be "kept around." Its one of the key Hitchcocks, and has a fan base from 100 years old(I would guess) on down to whoever is seeing it in film classes today. Teenagers? I'm not saying all of them, just the ones who can see the movie history in NXNW (Bond/Indy/Die Hard/Matrix starts here) but who may still find it enjoyable(Saul Bass and Bernard Herrmann right at the beginning invite us all...)

---

More importantly, the DVD rental often has movies you cannot find streaming.

---

That's very important. I don't have all the streaming channels, but I have a few and it is clear that there are limits to one they can carry -- or WILL carry (pre-80s movies that aren't hits or classics.)

There is also that service -- I have used it -- where you can BUY a DVD of a favorite movie direct from the studio(Warner Brothers for instance) and then press you a copy and send it to you. (I did this with Warner Brothers' 1967 Hotel, which I love but others don't even know about.)

---

Sadly, because of how popular streaming has become the rental service is a fraction of what it once was and I don't think they're replacing damaged or lost copies. So if a user in Fairbanks, AK wants to hold onto the last remaining copy for a while, then you're waiting on their time table.

---

Ha. Well, I''ll back away to every corner until I can back away no more...

---

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Some worthwhile examples I can think of regarding streaming:
- HBO pulls Westworld to avoid paying residuals to cast/crew

---
I'll bet the cast and crew love THAT. I'll bet future contracts for future HBO series will have a clause to avoid it...but maybe not...you never know if your show will hit, you're begging to go on the air.

---

- HBO previously pulled Gone With the Wind until a preface was added

---

Well, as long as the movie is left intact...OK. Movie history is history, period, and folks need to see what was made and why...and when. That was a VERY popular novel, that may well be the MOST popular movie ever made, over decades and with inflation on tickets added in.

---
CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

- Netflix & Hulu pulled episodes of Community & It's Always Sunny due to episodes labeled offensive

---

To WHO?

---
- 2021 lawsuits against Apple for content and user access removal. Here apple said no reasonable person would expect when they click 'buy' that it means they have indefinite access to it.
--
No reasonable person. The great legal standard for "person." I've "bought" a few movies on streaming(at the higher price than rental) and I think one of them stuck around for about a year -- until I changed streaming systems, then...gone.

But what if I had KEPT that system? Interesting: "buy" doesn't MEAN "buy."

On the other hand: when I "buy" a CD, it is indeed possible that the CD will wear out after, what 20 30 viewings? I've discussed them jamming on me, and indeed -- I BUY another CD

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Point being that with streaming, you are at their whim in terms of content you can access.

---

Well, I suppose some of this has been ever thus.

A favorite filmmaker of mine -- Alfred Hitchcock -- famously "took away" five movies that he owned (including classics like Vertigo and Rear Window) and rather sadistically announced they would be released until AFTER he was dead. THEN, when he DID die(1980) folks just waited around to see when Universal would start releasing them: 1983. Three more years.

In the wake of the JFK assassination, Sinatra reportedly removed The Manchurian Candidate from distribution from 1963 until a 1988 re-release. (Proved untrue by those of us with memories: it was shown on CBS in the 60s and NBC in the 80s.) Still, it was hard to find in those years.

I guess we've always been subject to the whims of those who control the movies...good thing we have good memories.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Following up on the point of streaming risks...

I think it's important we preserve all the media, good and bad, beautiful and ugly. Regarding Gone with the wind & the TV shows I listed - they were pulled due to racist imagery. I think pulling them does more harm than good. In the case of streaming giants making these decisions, we can end up in a world where we lose a dialogue or conversation regarding what is right or wrong. I think understanding context of times is important. This gets to a bigger point where we end up with only things that are deemed appropriate for all to watch.

To draw a similarity to your comments on NXNW, we can also end up in a sort of copyright/ownership hell, where Company X owns the title, but Y signed a contract for distribution rights, and Z had ownership of streaming and no one will compromise on who can release the title.

---

Oh yeah, I've heard of that happening.

I know that MGM isn't really a studio anymore(no physical plant) but last year the movie "Licorice Pizza" has the MGM lion roaring on the trailer and to start the movie but...if you look at clips on YouTube. they say "property of Universal Pictures." Hmm.

---

I can't remember exactly what film, but I believe this situation has occurred exactly so that the film sits in a kind of no man's land. I believe this might be the case for some of the early Godzilla films with various subs/dubs/release.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

I think it's unfortunate this situation could arise and we may only have a few still images of a film or show that is locked away because some entity can't or won't release it and we're left to discuss or read about it.

---

"Discuss or read about it." We used to call that "movies going away." You got to see a movie during release -- maybe two or three times and then..."it went away." "North by Northwest" was first released in 1959. Then "it went away" for SEVEN YEARS, and then it got a very brief 1966 re-release to movie theaters for about two weeks and then it went away...but only for about a year and a half -- North by Northwest hit CBS in September of 1967. But then it went away for over a year until CBS showed it in November of 1968....and resurfaced in 1970 for once-a-year local plays in syndication.

---

In these cases, physical storage allows people to still access media that is basically now only a part of history.

---

I'm on it.

One nice thing about my DVD collection. It consists of my favorite movie -- and sometimes second, third fourth favorites -- from each year of my life arranged in ahem ....order in a few bookcases. It starts a few years before my birth because I liked movies from then but then I can start with the year of my birth and -- rather like Madeline pointing at ancient tree rings in Vertigo -- I walk along the DVDS and watch the years go by. The "kiddie movies." The teenage movies(drive-in specials.) The movies of adulthood -- TAKING kiddies. And all through the whole collection...the date movies. Also: I have had kids walk along the row of DVDS until they reach THEIR year of birth and my favorite movie of THAT year, and they can see how far ahead of them I came in. (Often, an earlier bookcase.)

Its very nice to have. And even if the DVDS all break down, I think I will keep them in order that way. Licorice Pizza of 2021 is the most recent DVD in the collection. I haven't decided on 2022 yet..

[–] bertnernie (43) 2 years ago

I'm glad you found my post helpful!

I think your collection sounds fantastic. Very unique way of collecting and keeping a top list from each year to preserve and re-watch. Really a fantastic way to browse the years, made even better that you can have visitors to browse it in an "order" and see where they pick up in the timeline.

I will definitely reiterate my suggestion on making digital backups. There is plenty of information out there. Like most things, you can go as simple a solution or complex/deep as you want.

"Discuss or read about it." We used to call that "movies going away." You got to see a movie during release -- maybe two or three times and then..."it went away."

Very good point here. I think it illustrates how far media has come now into the digital age. Before, if you missed it...you missed it. You would be lucky to get a re-showing. Now, "let's just wait for it on rental" has turned to "see it the same day on streaming." With things moving so fast, and now the ability to actually buy a physical or digital copy, I feel there is an allure to keeping and preserving a given media versus just going off memories. I can imagine now walking by your collection and having memories stirred up just from seeing the title of the film on the spine of the DVD.

There is also that service -- I have used it -- where you can BUY a DVD of a favorite movie direct from the studio(Warner Brothers for instance) and then press you a copy and send it to you. (I did this with Warner Brothers' 1967 Hotel, which I love but others don't even know about.)

Can you tell me the name of that website? I haven't heard of that and it sounds like a great service to have.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

I'm glad you found my post helpful!

--

I did. Thank you!

---

I think your collection sounds fantastic. Very unique way of collecting and keeping a top list from each year to preserve and re-watch. Really a fantastic way to browse the years, made even better that you can have visitors to browse it in an "order" and see where they pick up in the timeline.

--

This developed over time. A couple of decades, really. I just sort of went from having a "random stack of DVDs" to asking for favorites(from my list) over the years as gifts(or buying them myself) until finally I had so many that somebody made the recommendation I organize the DVDS. I think I went for alphabetical first; for awhile, I grouped by star and/or director.

But somewhere along the line I decided on the chronological order thing and I tell you -- it can be a bit overwhelming at times to see one's entire life go by like that, but its also very inspiring: practically every one of those movies meant something to me when I first saw them(like The Godfather) or over the years looking back (like Charley Varrick) and well, its a life well spent on THAT part of the leisure time. And yes, it is fun to bring in a younger crowd to see where THEY come in.

---

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

I will definitely reiterate my suggestion on making digital backups. There is plenty of information out there. Like most things, you can go as simple a solution or complex/deep as you want.

--

Well, I will definitely move fast on this. The idea of the "keepers of movies" taking them away from us is pretty real these days, I think.

Not to mention the loss of the history of movies themselves.

---

"Discuss or read about it." We used to call that "movies going away." You got to see a movie during release -- maybe two or three times and then..."it went away."

Very good point here. I think it illustrates how far media has come now into the digital age. Before, if you missed it...you missed it. You would be lucky to get a re-showing. Now, "let's just wait for it on rental" has turned to "see it the same day on streaming." With things moving so fast, and now the ability to actually buy a physical or digital copy, I feel there is an allure to keeping and preserving a given media versus just going off memories.

---

Well, I must admit the idea of "immediate access" to movies is at once a great thing and a kind of sad thing of the modern movie age. There was something to be said for "having to wait" to see a movie again, or keeping it as a treasured memory rather than something you could look at any time.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

A corollary: in the 60s and 70s, with blockbuster movies on fewer screens, sometimes it took a long time to SEE the movie. You had to buy advance tickets for "roadshows." And/or you had to wait for WEEKS for the lines to get down where you wanted to get in them. Or you DID get in a line and you had to wait HOURS to get into the theater. This is how it was when I saw The Godfather, and I must admit, when I was FINALLY in my seat, and the CURTAIN finally went up(do they have curtains anymore) and the music came on and the movie started and the man said "I believe in America" -- it had been a long, hard JOURNEY to be at that moment, and seeing the movie was a very exciting "event" moment in one's life.

(Yeah, sure there were other big events too -- weddings, births, deaths, travel -- but for entertainment, this couldn't be beat.)

Now: the movie opens on 7,000 screens , 10 per theater, you can see a movie opening day with ease. And I can put The Godfather in my DVD player anytime -- but I still have the MEMORY of the man saying "I believe in America" and how exciting that was at the time.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

I can imagine now walking by your collection and having memories stirred up just from seeing the title of the film on the spine of the DVD.

---

Absolutely. Like how and when and where and with whom I saw The Godfather. Or Jaws.

One also gets a bit of thrill seeing a "series" of spines in a row: The Untouchables, Die Hard, Batman, GoodFellas, Silence of the Lambs. My faves in those years -- a good run of movies, you ask me.

There is also that service -- I have used it -- where you can BUY a DVD of a favorite movie direct from the studio(Warner Brothers for instance) and then press you a copy and send it to you. (I did this with Warner Brothers' 1967 Hotel, which I love but others don't even know about.)

Can you tell me the name of that website? I haven't heard of that and it sounds like a great service to have

--

I'm sorry , I don't have the name. In fact , as I recall someone ORDERED "Hotel" 1967 for me from one of those services. I think all the studio DVD divisions have them. Hotel was from Warner brothers. Perhaps the words "custom" or "classics" are part of the title? Sorry again.

[–] bertnernie (43) 2 years ago

A corollary: in the 60s and 70s, with blockbuster movies on fewer screens, sometimes it took a long time to SEE the movie. You had to buy advance tickets for "roadshows." And/or you had to wait for WEEKS for the lines to get down where you wanted to get in them. Or you DID get in a line and you had to wait HOURS to get into the theater. This is how it was when I saw The Godfather, and I must admit, when I was FINALLY in my seat, and the CURTAIN finally went up(do they have curtains anymore) and the music came on and the movie started and the man said "I believe in America" -- it had been a long, hard JOURNEY to be at that moment, and seeing the movie was a very exciting "event" moment in one's life.

Thank you for sharing this memory. I completely get this experience and how you lived it. As you said, entertainment wise, that's hard to beat. A true thrill. I think you've opened my eyes a bit on our love with films. There's a joy in " just going to the movies this weekend" and all the fun that brings, and then there is this step higher where you can say you went to the cinema and experienced something that impacted you deeply and left its mark as a piece of art. Very very cool.

As a follow-up to earlier comments in this thread regarding DVD by mail: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2023/04/so-long-red-envelopes-dvds-in-the-mail-version-of-netflix-ends-in-september/

Netflix DVD will be going away. You can see a lot of nostalgia in the comments section of that article. I don't even use the service anymore and I know it is a loss.

Who knows - vinyl is having its resurgence now - maybe one day DVD will have its time back in the spotlight.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Thank you for sharing this memory. I completely get this experience and how you lived it.

--

I appreciate hearing that. You know, one reaches a point in one's life where it is like: "I spent all those weekends 'just' seeing movies?" and the answer - at least from my youth is -- YES, and it was great and communal -- with family or friends -- and romantic -- with the women in my life -- and as exciting or great as the movies were that came along, year after year.

---

As you said, entertainment wise, that's hard to beat. A true thrill. I think you've opened my eyes a bit on our love with films. There's a joy in " just going to the movies this weekend" and all the fun that brings,

---

Someone somewhere wrote about the "ritualistic anticipation" of knowing that there would be a movie to be seen on the weekend -- maybe a matinee, maybe a night show, maybe with a full house, maybe not -- but it was something to LOOK FORWARD to. (And it wasn't EVERY weekend, and some weekends I went to ball games, and there was time to do other things. But a movie was a nice centerpiece.)

--

and then there is this step higher where you can say you went to the cinema and experienced something that impacted you deeply and left its mark as a piece of art. Very very cool.

---

More than a few times, yes. The seventies strikes me as a peak time for "event movies" for everybody. The Exorcist(with huge lines in Los Angeles; they only put it in ONE theater for awhile). Star Wars of course(huge lines AND the rather instantaneous announcement that there was a HUGE audience for SciFi -- studios that turned down Star Wars could not picture it, but should have remembered Star Trek.

And the summer of Jaws -- down to the beach right after the matinee to DARE dive in the ocean.

The 80s brought "multi-blockbuster summers" that "beat" the 70's in certain ways, but the lines were shorter, it was easier to see these movies and soon -- you could rent or buy them on VHS.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

As a follow-up to earlier comments in this thread regarding DVD by mail: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2023/04/so-long-red-envelopes-dvds-in-the-mail-version-of-netflix-ends-in-september/

Netflix DVD will be going away. You can see a lot of nostalgia in the comments section of that article. I don't even use the service anymore and I know it is a loss.

---

I didn't know about it, to use it, but I already FELT the loss of being able to go rent a DVD. Anymore it seems like you can only BUY them -- at Target, say, or by ordering a "custom" (like Hotel 1967) direct from the studio.

---

Who knows - vinyl is having its resurgence now - maybe one day DVD will have its time back in the spotlight.

--

I hope so. Again, the big "great thing" about DVDs, to me, was the ability to go RIGHT TO any favorite scene without a long fast forward("instant gratification.") Not to mention all those "slow starting movies" that DVD allowed me to skip the first half hour every time. I start The Sting when Paul Newman first enters the movie to join Redford. I can barely remember the first 20 minutes anymore.

---

I'll add this: given my memories from childhood on through college years, the greatest loss to the American movie, I think, has been the drive-in.

The memories:

As a child: the end of the day, sunset coming on, a playground for kids while the parents watched and everyone waited for the sun to set and the movie to come on(a double feature if you were willing to watch deep into a summer night.)

As a teen: "Going to the movies with the gang." Cars and trucks side by side, as much joking around and playing pranks and flirting as watching the movie. "Bonding."

As a romantic dater: There's something about being in a car at night with a person you love...or lust.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Of course, the QUALITY of a movie at a drive-in was bad. You couldn't see the image clearly(some drive ins in the summer would start the movie while the sun was still out, and you could only HEAR the movie until it got dark enough to see!), the sound system was lousy. No matter. The trick was to go to mediocre movies, or to re-visit a good movie you already saw "indoors."

I guess with all the talk about whether movies have gotten worse over the years in CONTENT, we can review how they got worse as "events" -- no reserved seat roadshows, no drive-ins...no DVDS.

Oh, well, there will be new ways to see them. And the memories of my generation will be replaced by the movie-going memories of the next -- perhaps cuddling on the couch to watch something on streaming, family, a roomful of the gang, or lovers?