MovieChat Forums > The Searchers (1956) Discussion > How did Lt. Greenhill become a Lieutenan...

How did Lt. Greenhill become a Lieutenant?

posted 2 years ago by MAGolding (1228)
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The Searchers (1956) was filmed from July to Auguust 1955. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049730/locations?ref_=ttrel_sa_4

Parick Wayne was born July 15, 1939. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0915618/?ref_=tt_cl_t_17

Thus he was aged either almost 16 or just barely 16 when his scenes as Lt. Greenhill were filmed.

And he certainly doesn't look much like an adult officer. At that time the main source for new officers in the US Army was West Point. And at that time the admission age for West Point was already set at 17 to 22, and it was already a four year period of instruction, so officers would graduate and be commissoned between the ages of 21 and 26, most at age 22.

So as a general rule even the greenest lieuteanants like Greenhill should have been about 22. I think that it might somehow be connected with the Civil War of 1861-1865. Unfortunately, The Searchers (1956) begins 3 years after the war,probably in 1868, and ends after a 5 year search, which is when Lt. Greenhill appears. So Greenhill is a very young looking officer in about 1873, 8 years after the war ended.

So if Greenhill in 1873 was the age of Patrick Wayne, he would have been born about 1857.

If greenhill became a lieutenant in the United States Volunteers during the war, and then managed to get a commission in the United States Army after the war onthe basis o fhis war service, he would have been only about 8 when the war ended. Taht would be old enough to be one of theyungest few drummer boys in the Civil War, but guite a few years lyounger thantheyoungest officer there.

Maybe Colonel Greenhill, in command of Lt. greenhill's unit in 1873, was in command of a unit during the Civil War and had his little son with him asa bugler or drummer boy. And maybe Colonel Greenhill was able to get his son into West Point about 1869 because of his son's service and possible heroism during the war.

Posssibly Colonel Greenhill ied about his son's age when appyling to West Point aobut 1868-69.

Possibly Colonel Greenhill had an older son who was a very young teenage officer during the war. Maybe theolder son died sometime after the war, but the c?olonel had his younger son impersonate the older son to get into West Point about 1869, or to get a direct appointment from civilian life around 1873.

I note tha t regula army officers wouldn't approve of their relatives serving as enlisted men (or boys as the case my have been). But officers in the United States Volunteers during the Civil War sometmes did have their sons and relatives enlisted in their units. So if Greenhill was a former Volunteer officer appointed to the regular army in 1866, he might have a volunteer officer's williness to have an enlisted son or other relative. And it was possible after the Civil War for a small fraction of enlisted soldiers to become commissione dofficers. So possibly Colonel Greenhill had his young bugler son apply for such a commmisison and had the other officers in the unit support the application and exaggerate the son's age.

As you see I am coming up with several rather improbable ideas to explain how someone as young as Patrick Wayne's Lt. Greenhill could be commissioned in the US Army.

Possibly Lt. Greenhill actually was 22 and merly looked many years younger than his true age.

I note that there is a similar problem in another John Wayne film directed by John Ford, Rio Grande (1950) where Jeff Yorke has already entered West Point and been expelled, despite being portrayed by 15-year-old Claude Jarmen Jr., and the minimum age to ender West Point being 17.

https://moviechat.org/tt0042895/Rio-Grande/62ce26d1921c7c55deec7a87/When-was-Jeff-born

In my post about that I wondered whether Rio Grande (1950) could happen in an alternate universe where there was a much younger minimum age at West Point - like most films set in historical eras it has to happen in an alternate universe to real history anyway.

[–] Otter (24464) 2 years ago

Eh, the film opens in 1868, when child labor was legal and in wartime, boys were given rifles and sent off to die if they lied about their age, and were a plausible height for an adult. So, say a tall boy of 12 enlists in the Civil War in 1863-1864, by 1872 he'd been about 20, with 8 years of experience in the military, I suppose it's possible that someone could have risen through the ranks by then. Or that he got into West Point at an earlier age, in those days some people began their higher education at 16, and it was MUCH easier to lie about one's age back then.

And some people have baby faces, and some actors play characters who are a bit older or younger than they are.

[–] MAGolding (1228) 2 years ago

Don't tell me about underaged privates and drummer boys in the US Civil War. I probably know a lot more about that than you do, incluiding knowing how much about the subject is unknown or doubtful.

When the Military Academy at West Point was established in 1802, it was not as organized as today. Early cadets ranged in age from 37 down to 10 and attended from 6 months to 6 years.

General Philip St.George Cooke (June 13, 1809-March 20, 1895) entered the US Military Academy at West Point age 14 (1823/24) and graduated on July 1, 1827 aged 18 years and 18 days.

https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/cooke-philip-st-george-1809-1895/

So unless Lt. Greenhill looked very young for his actual age, he would have been a few years younger than Lt. Cooke. A few decades later the minimum age to enter West Point had been raised to 17. George Armstong Custer entered WEst Point on July 1, 1857, still aged 17, and I remember reading in some of his biographies that was already the minimum age which it has remained ever since.

So if Lt. Greenhill was as young as Patrick Wayne he whould have entered West Point about 1869 when he was about 5 years under the legal minimum age, and he and his family, etc. would have had to lie a lot on his application. I can think of no great advantage over waiting until he was the legal age.

General John LIncoln Clem (1851-1937) was a famous drummer boy in the Civil War, promoted to lance sergeant age 12, and was appointed from civilian life as a 2nd Lieutenant in the regular army in 1871, when he was already 20 years & 4 months old. So Lt. Greenhill would have had to be an even more extremely young example of a famous boy soldier in the Civil War if he was appointed from civilian life on the basis of his Civil War record.

[–] Otter (24464) 2 years ago

I will accept that you know more about that period than I do.

And all of my theories and speculation hinge on this Lt. Greenhill being several years older than the actor who played him, because yeah. Some people look younger than their real ages, and that baby-faced lieutenant could have passed for early 20s... at least to me. Maybe not to you.

[–] Foster (878) 2 years ago

Didn't hurt that his real father was John Wayne

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

His Pa, dag nabbit!