Blue-eyed indian chief?


My initial shock/laugh at the closeup face shot of the "Commanche" was later a little staled by the thought of him perhaps being a white man somehow ending up to be an Indian. That would make sense by the casting people choosing a blue eyed person for the role. However it appears he was not, at least it was not addressed in the movie. The though that comes up to mind is that couldn't have they just chosen an actor who looked more like a Native American? Other Indians in the movie looked quite suited.

An another funny thing: The "dead" Indian under a rock, breathing like a he is at the doctor's the second camera points at him :D lol

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Quanah Parker, a Comanche chief, had blue eyes. He was a half-breed. If an Indian is the product of other Indians who had genetically intermingled with Europeans (Eg., the Cherokee) on both the mother's and father's side over long periods of time, in that way, too, Scar could have come by the piercing blue color of his eyes. Rare but not impossible.

Re the "dead" Indian, I've seen this film over twenty times, I think, and have yet to see the breathing you speak of. Actually, I thought they were working with a wax dummy. Maybe what you saw was his spirit "wandering forever between the winds"!

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Perhaps, but the actor playing Scar also had completely Caucasian facial features. He looked like a typical White American with paint on his face and feathers on his head.

Look at it again. He is clearly breathing.

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Who's to say that Scar wasn't genetically Caucasian (or at least partially so?) Frontier children being abducted and being reared by Native American warriors and becoming part of the tribe wasn't exactly unheard of; nor, of course, could it be ruled out that Scar's mother was a woman of European descent who was abducted by Scar's tribe, since such enterprises were things in which Scar himself was noted for.

And the actor who played Scar? He came from Germany.

Okay folks, show's over, nothing to see here!

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Sorry to be so ornery but he looked pretty damn "Indian" to me.

I did look at it again, and you either have better eyes than me, or a much better imagination.

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As a Native American that looks white, I can assure you it is possible.

Why do you think the government requires Native Americans to carry cards proving their ancestry? It's because my people got around.

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I just watched it for the zillionth time (before reading this thread) and, yet again, the "dead" Indian was breathing as though taking a nap, with the arms on his chest rising and falling unmistakeably. How could anyone miss it?!

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Yeah I wondered why they said he was dead when he was clearly breathing. I was waiting for him to leap out and attack them

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Actually, the actor was German, not American. His birth name was Heinrich von Kleinbach. No fooling.
As for the "blue-eyed Indian" issue, I believe it has been addressed adequately. There were captive women taken by the Comanches for generations, also fur traders and mountain men who might have added to the gene pool. There was also a class of people, traders and raiders, called "Comancheros", who befriended the Comanches, and might have fathered children by Comanche women.

"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
Captain Augustus McCrae

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Not only that, but if you've ever seen "March of the Wooden Soldiers, he played Silas Barnaby (the heavy) in that under heavy makeup.

He was only 21 at the time of that movie.

This guy's been around.

..Joe

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I just finished watching this film for the first time and at first I thought the breathing Indian under the rock was supposed to be alive as you can see his chest heaving. Maybe you have poor eyesight? That would explain you missing it despite watching it over 20x.




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Maybe you have a hyper-active imagination? That would explain your seeing the breathing.

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Many others saw it too. I was being nice while you're being too defensive. Bye.




Global Warming, it's a personal decision innit? - Nigel Tufnel

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You suggested I had "poor eyesight". I suggested you had an active "imagination". Sounds like a quid pro quo to me. Maybe we were both "being nice" -- and, ah, both being a little "defensive", too, if you mean defending our own impressions? . . . Btw, ain't that what these boards are supposed to be about? 

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This thread needs an Elizabeth Warren joke.

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Steve McQueen played a blue eyed half-breed in "Nevada Smith".

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I'm watching the film now that it's one I grew up with and have seen many times. They wouldn't cast Henry Brandon if the film was made today, but he was a veteran actor who excelled at playing heavies. While casting a Native American actor would have been ideal, Brandon had a certain gravitas that made him quite exciting in the role.

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The best is F-Troop. I think all the Indians were white!

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A blue-eyed German Indian chief!

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There have been many blue-eyed Indians. Look it up.

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Not Comanches; look it up.

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I have.

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Not Comanches; look it up.



Comanches who have any European ancestry (see the other comments in this thread that prove it happened) can most certainly have some European genetic traits, including having blue eyes. Heck, Scar probably rose in the ranks of his tribe because of his blue eyes, a rarity among his people.

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ProudTraitor says > My initial shock/laugh at the closeup face shot of the "Commanche" was later a little staled by the thought of him perhaps being a white man somehow ending up to be an Indian. That would make sense by the casting people choosing a blue eyed person for the role. However it appears he was not, at least it was not addressed in the movie. The though that comes up to mind is that couldn't have they just chosen an actor who looked more like a Native American? Other Indians in the movie looked quite suited.
First, this is where people tend to get into trouble. All races of people through time have mixed when they come into contact with each other. As a result, most people are not pure-bred. It just so happens some physical traits are more dominate than others so they are more likely to be passed on to future generations even when there having been interracial mixing.

That's the very reason racist, class-conscious, and other bigoted types work so hard to keep their offspring away from whatever types they consider undesirable. If the children are around each other on a regular basis they will invariably develop attractions to people outside their group of origin. If they can't keep them apart physically then they use words, negative stories, stereotypes, fear, and other prejudicial methods to build walls even where none exist.

In the case of the Indians in this movie, and other groups throughout history, women and girls were often kidnapped into the group then they were either raped or raised as part of the group. Many of them fought to stay with their new families because that's all they knew. They had children and adapted.

Casting a blue-eyed chief didn't require explanation. In fact, I think it worked better that there was no explanation provided. Throughout the movie we saw how it was possible for that to happen. White girls had been kidnapped into the tribe. Marty, who was part Indian had been raised in the white man's world. Marty had inadvertently married an Indian girl. Debbie, having spent most of her life with the tribe, objected to being rescued the first time she was found. Her memories with the Indians, at that point, would have been much stronger than her childhood memories with her family of origin.

That kind of thing happens so often there's a name for it: Stockholm syndrome. As humans we have a strong drive to belong and will adapt, especially as children, into whichever group in which we find ourselves for any appreciable amount of time. It's part of our survival skills. We're so resilient, I think, we're better at being transplanted than most plants and animals.

Anyway, we're not told what Scar's background is because it really doesn't matter. Also, from Ethan and the others' perspective, they wouldn't know or necessarily care about his ancestry. He was their enemy; plain and simple, even if his parent or he, himself, had once been part of their cultural group. We see how easily some of them were able to give up and turn their backs on Debbie and she had been part of their community; someone they all had known well.


Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

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