MovieChat Forums > Forbidden Planet (1958) Discussion > Sorry, but the Id Monster: No. Just No.

Sorry, but the Id Monster: No. Just No.

posted 10 years ago by bastasch8647
43 replies | jump to latest

I can understand the producers wanting to break new ground and get away from puppet creatures and stop-motion, but that Disney-derived cartoon monster just doesn't have any gravitas. I saw it in a theater in a limited run/re-release (along with The Time Machine) in maybe 1975. The creature didn't convince even on the big screen - nor does it work in the HD version. A cartoon is a cartoon, and after the massive creepy build-up to the great revelation, we get a sort of cross between Warner Studio's Tasmanian Devil and the Bald Mountain monster in Fantasia. It was a big disappointment in an otherwise very fine film. Botching the central villainous character/central special effect really brings this film way, way down.

Related issue: the Id Monster seems to be huge when we see it illuminated by the perimter beams. Yet before this scene, it is able, invisibly, to get aboard the ship and murder the chief technician. And when it first visits the ship, the camera runs up the stairs to indicate its stealthy entrance. But in its major, lethal, visit, the camera shows the steps bending under its weight.

So are we to gather that at first the monster was smaller and lighter and only gained hugeness as Morbius' unconscious jealousy over his daughter's attraction to Nielsen... or what?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] bastasch8647 10 years ago

Thanks for commenting... we are agreed that the film and its ideas are timeless. And thanks for your view that the creature could have been smaller the first time... I can't think of any other reason that it could squeeze into the ship...
:)

[–] hobnob53 10 years ago

I've often wondered about the size issue. I concluded long ago that since we are after all dealing with a figment of Morbius's imagination, the Id monster could be adjusted, if you will, in size, power and so on in order to complete its tasks.

The monster also has to have been smaller in order to get into Morbius's house at the climax, as well as to travel through the Krell corridors to the lab.

I think the Id looks good, especially since we're dealing with something invisible. I like studying its facial outlines in that scene. I actually think this is a much more difficult object to illustrate than a solid one.

The "cartoon" effect I always found fake was the background shots of the Krell machine, in the long shot of Morbius, Adams and Ostrow walking along on the lower left side of the screen -- a huge drawing of pulsating lights, a large leaning tower of some sort that flickers, and other background details that look extremely fake, just like the Disney cartoon illustrations they are. They aren't even matched well with the real set at the lower left.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] bastasch8647 10 years ago

Just a brief "thanks" to everyone who's been contributing their ideas - fascinating reading for sure.

[–] hobnob53 10 years ago

Turn off you rational mind

What the world needs now...an irrational human being!

Have the Krell taught you nothing?! 

[–] arbilab 10 years ago

The Krell machine was not Disney at all. It was MGM matte painters. Disney wanted effects animator Josh Meador back, fast. MGM didn't waste him making the matte blink.

Meador did the 'visible' Krell monster, the vanishing tiger, the landing beam, the blasters.

In one version the monster was deemed TOO scary and replaced with the 'Tasmanian devil'. It's not that they couldn't make kids wet their pants, but they decided not to.

_______________________
Guacamole in my choos

[–] hobnob53 10 years ago

Thanks for the correction. That's still the fakest effect in the film.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] sonofagun 9 years ago

Fakest effect?

OK then Mr. Smarty Pants, if you had been in charge back in 1955, how would you have done it better??

A guy in a rubber suit like Godzilla? Or a Harryhausen stop motion figure like the Ymir from 20,000,000 miles to earth?

Maybe a puppet monster like in The Angry Red Planet or The Giant Claw?

LMFAO!

[–] hobnob53 9 years ago

"Mr. Smarty Pants"? What is this, third grade?

However, as long as you brought up your intelligence level, I suggest you go back and actually read the posts you're commenting on. The fake effect I was referring to was the Krell machine in the scene where Morbius is taking Adams and Ostrow through the Krells' underground complex. It's a cartoon and looks every inch a cartoon.

If you'd bothered to pay attention, you'd not only have known I was referring to the machine, not the Id monster, but you would also have seen that I specifically praised the look of the Id monster in the film. I have no issue with that, as the OP does. It's all in my post of May 13, 2015, above, to which my later post referred.

Next time, check your facts before making comments on something you obviously know nothing about. The only one here who could be "LMFAO" is me, though the "FA" part fits you much better.

[–] pjmcgill142 9 years ago

James Arness?

[–] ewaf58 9 years ago

It was a representation of Morbius's ego so it could change in size to suit the circumstances.

Everyone's ego can manifest itself at times - look at the size of politicians when they're campaigning for themselves.

[–] sonofagun 10 years ago

This really is a silly criticism - how the hell is an invisible creature which was a projection of some unknown substance from a 200,000 year old alien machine made visible by futuristic blaster beams of an unknown nature supposed to look?

Frankly, it was/is an excellent effect - the film's entire special effects were very ground breaking for its day and still hold up well today. Also to try to understand exactly the nature of the monster and how it did what it did in the story is more silly conjecturing - it was a fictional creature so you could no more figure it's nature out than any other mythological creature.

Obviously this criticism is that of the O.P. and its his alone. Many of the top directors in Hollywood have nothing but admiration for the film and its effects.

[–] CathodeRayTubesRock 9 years ago

The OP is entitled to his/her opinion. But I agree with you sonofagun: The id-monster is an excellent effect. When the monster is first lit-up by the ray guns is one of my favorite scenes in the movie, in any movie. Also, the scene where the Kray steel is melting is awesome.

Sig, you want a sig, here's a SIG-sauer!

[–] doughazelrigg 9 years ago

All I know is that when I saw it as a kid, it scared the s*** out of me

[–] Andthatismytwocents 9 years ago

The Krell Machine provides it's user the power needed to do whatever

Since only stealth was needed the first few times the creature is "seen" the creature would not have to be that large and the audience had to be shown something hence the footprints and the eventual "cartoon" image which yes STILL holds up today

BUT Since the C57D crew is trying to destroy the monster a machine of perpetual motion power that CAN NOT be shut off would provide whatever be needed

Also Morbius claims his Krell IQ enhancement is that of a Krell Child

What did the Adult Krell create?

[–] markfilipak 8 years ago

@Andthatismytwocents

Also Morbius claims his Krell IQ enhancement is that of a Krell Child

At that time, Dr. Morbius didn't know the full capabilities of the Plastic Educator (his name for it). He merely assumed it was to educate Krell children.
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If polar bears can't stand the change, they should go back to where they came from.

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] ewaf58 9 years ago

[–] Beau_Buffet (342) 7 years ago

Precisely not his EGO, but rather his ID.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

[–] brucedgo 9 years ago

I can understand the producers wanting to break new ground and get away from puppet creatures and stop-motion, but that Disney-derived cartoon monster just doesn't have any gravitas.

You didn't see it in 1956. I was blown away. I'm going, "How did they do that!!!!???" Of course I was only 12 or 13 years old, but that was something never seen before. And really impressive.

Yeah, the way it looks to me now, it's hard for me to believe the impact it had. But it did. It really worked!

[–] nickm2 9 years ago

And let's not forget that thing's demented wailing...man, did that make my hair stand on end.

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] ewaf58 9 years ago

Well if you remember Morbius told Adams that their destruction happened so fast they couldn't stop it. The Krell saw themselves as divine creatures and had actually forgotten about their (part) evil selves so it wouldn't have occurred to them to build a safety device.

If there's something troubling you in your subconscious you may not want to look - the Krell certainly didn't until their giant machines manifested it - and they were all killed.

[–] masuka-fan 9 years ago

I thought it was kind of cool, but it did remind me of Gossamer, the orange monster that sometimes appeared in Bugs Bunny cartoons.

I did notice the inconsistency with the steps! Maybe it did grow...it's as good an explanation as any.

[–] Satan2016 8 years ago

Jonny Quest stole the monster in The Invisible Monster (1965).

[–] kurt7825 8 years ago

i just watched this movie for the first time tonight and found the effect to be awesome and scary. my favorite scene in the movie

"I don't trust anything that bleeds for 7 days and doesn't die"