Well I like it...


Despite the message that if your a woman you need to just put up with however your husband treats you and you can't do anything about it, I like this movie and Carousel is one of my favourite musicals. I do think the stage version is much better, though. In the stage version Billy kills himself and the story isn't told in a flash back. I think the flash back way of storytelling hurts this movie. The songs are all great, "If I Loved You" and "You'll Never Walk Alone" especially. Doesn't anyone else here like Carousel at all?

I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way.

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I've never seen the stage verson of it, but I love the movie. It was one of if not the first musical movies I ever owned! It's differently one of my favorite movies ever and one of the best musicals I've seen.

I'm a girl who dreams big :)

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I think the message is that Billy did not hit Julie because he intended to hurt her. He hit her out of a sense of his own inadequacy as a provider and his frustration at not being able to get a job. Julie knew this, and that's why she forgave him for it.

Billy hit his daughter for a similar reason; he felt inadequate when he tried to help her and she refused the star that he gave her.

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I like it! I just watched it again with my wife. It has some great songs that are quite moving, Shirley looks marvelous as always, and Gordon MacCrea is perfect as Billy. I recall seeing this when I was much younger, and I was very moved by the story. I think you're right that the flashback hurts the story; but I suppose it is just a way of providing a somewhat happy ending to an otherwise dire tale. Hollywood has its habits. The dance sequences are very entertaining and energetic, the sets are beautiful at times, nicely contrasting with the beautiful location shots. Despite what someone else says about Billy's "reasons" for hitting women, I can tell you (especially as my wife was watching also!) that such explanations don't play well anymore, and it is a slightly uncomfortable feature of the story. Despite this, one does feel some real compassion for Billy's inadequacies as husband and man. It's a good musical.

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It's definitely a problem show. The music is great and it continues to move people, but hitting your wife because you have "reasons" doesn't (and shouldn't) play anymore. I don't know what the solution is.

cinefreak

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i love it!!

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why does billy kill himself in the other version ?

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In the stage play, Billy commits suicide (stabs himself) when the attempted robbery goes awry, presumably because he can't abide the thought of being imprisoned. It is in keeping with his narcissistic character, who is generally too selfish to realize how circumstances and/or his actions affect others, only how they would affect him. On the whole, the stage play is darker than the film adaptation, in which respect it is closer in spirit to the original literary source, Ferenc Molnar's play "Liliom" (1909). In any case, ca. 1956, any "sympathetic" portrayal of suicide was forbidden by Hollywood's code of self-censorship, so the suicide was eliminated, and Billy instead dies by accidentally falling on his knife in his attempt to escape the police.

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It was an acceptable scene for the times (hitting Julie and his daughter) - we have to remember we've grown through the years. I think it's healthy to look back and realize this.

Vocatus atque non vocatus deus aderit...

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Can we ever put this debate to rest?
Those who think "Carousel" condones wife-beating (and daughter-slapping) have completely missed the point. Does anyone truly believe Rodgers and Hammerstein were trying to promote spousal abuse? If you know anything about these gentlemen, you know this cannot be true.
Have you forgotten the many characters who criticize and deride Billy's violent behavior (I hope I'm not leaving anyone out): Carrie, Cousin Nettie, the Starkeeper, the Heavenly Friend, Mrs. Mullin, and Enoch Jr. And when confronted with the accusation, Billy twice makes a lame attempt to defend himself and the third time makes no response at all.
What of Julie's heartbreaking comment to Louise near the end of the film that it is possible for someone to hit you and it not hurt at all? Come on, folks, look beneath the text! She is obviously trying to state poetically and metaphorically (as she did in "What's the Use of Wondrin'") her undying love for Billy, despite his shortcomings.
This particular criticism of "Carousel" really gets my goat.

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There was a great revival of Carousel in London and New York about 10 years ago, with a phenomenal performance by Michael Hayden (though his singing was widely criticized). Hayden's reaction to Julie's "hit you and it not hurt at all" was brilliant, so shamed and angry. He clearly refused Julie's excuses for him. It was very moving.


"Everett Sloane - he was good - pills. Margaret Sullivan, pills. Lupe Velez, a lot of pills."

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"Carousel" si a gorgeous musical. It epitomizes what a musical is capable of being. Although the people who made this film messed with it (flashback et al)and ruined parts of it, there are some wonderful performances and nicely done scenes (bench scene eg). I agree that the underlying message about spousal abuse is not PC. I don't care. Love the show!

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Have not seen the stage show. The movie was a bit boring, some scenes were a little too long. But Gordon Macrae is one of my favorites and I love the song "Soliloquy" which he sings with an outstanding performance. And the "Carousel Waltz" is a great song also. All in all its worth watching but cant hold a candle to Oklahoma.

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While we're defending the film version of "Carousel" (see my last post above), let's tackle a couple of other oft-heard subjects: the flashback style and the missing songs.
To me, the flashback idea was a brilliant conceit by the Ephrons. It creates a sense of foreboding and doom throughout the movie, leading up to the robbery. Knowing that Billy is going to die in the story (and obviously not as an old man) makes The Bench Scene, including "If I Loved You" ("Soon you'd leave me; off you would go in the mist of day") ten times more potent and poignant. That same effect is realized with "Soliloquy" and "What's the Use of Wondrin'." So I have a completely opposite take from those who argue the flashback eases the audience into Billy's death.
As for the missing songs, the magic of Rodgers and Hammerstein was that they had such a high percentage of great songs in most of their shows. But by omitting a few of their lesser songs, which costs the movie nothing, what is left in "Carousel" is pure gold. Besides, "You're a Queer One, Julie Jordan" would have become anachronistic, and "Blow High, Blow Low" really does not advance the story.
I've seen the film countless times since I was a child, and it's one of my all-time favorites. I have also seen the stage version. I'll take the movie any day.

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MaterialGirl - that's not the message! In fact Billy's actions were critized by everyone else in the movie. It's the PERFECT way of saying to the general audience - hey, Billy hits but it's WRONG!! The character of Billy is rough, he roams the docks, he's a womanizer, he fights and kills. If the scene were left out there's no moral to learn. It's just a fairy tale. Imagine Romeo and Juliet without suicide. Or In Cold Blood without rape.

Vocatus atque non vocatus deus aderit...

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I have just finished watching this film again for the first time in many years. It was a birthday present and i can only thank my parents for getting me this amazing musical. I cried like a baby and kept begging them to let julie see billy - i think my flatmates must all think im crazy!! I feel the flashback idea was excellent as it made Billy realise how awful he had been and that he needed to face up to his actions. The underlying message in this is so powerful. I understand that some may prefer the more light hearted State Fair etc. I in fact got state fair as well and watched that on tuesday. This i loved too but on a completely different level. They are both excellent in their own right with a different message to put across. R and H have not failed yet again to produce a fantastic film that will live on in my heart forever. And this is coming from a teenager!!!

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Welcome to the "Carousel" fan club. It's a film I've enjoyed tremendously countless times over the past forty-plus years.

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Thank you!! I love all these types of films and Carousel is defo it near the top of my list!

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R&H were a team like few others!! Did you ever see West Side Story? A modern musical tragedy based on a play by William Shakespeare. The movie starred Natalie Wood and Richard Beymer, music by Bernstein.

vocatus atque non vocatus Deus aderit...

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[deleted]

Rodgers and Hammerstein did not write the score for WEST SIDE STORY. It was written by Leonard Bernstein and Stephen Sondheim.

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That deleted post above yours was me saying the same thing. After I wrote it, I deleted it because it occurred to me that despite it being poorly written, the writer didn't really think R & H wrote WSS (it says Bernstein wrote the music).

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I know. And it's in my post! I was telling le mis nut of another musical tragedy.

vocatus atque non vocatus Deus aderit...

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Carousel without a doubt is my favorite R&H Musical, and my brothers. My dad's favorite was The King and I. Mom's was Sound of Music, and my sister's was Flower Drum Song. My brother works as a Technical Director in Chicago today, lucky dog.

Schrödinger's Cat is Dead, Schrödinger's Cat is not Dead

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Bob, welcome to "Carousel," not only my favorite R & H musical, but my all-time favorite film musical, with a permanent spot on my five favorite films list. If you get a chance, read some of my posts here--we have debated, among other things, whether "Carousel" promotes spousal abuse and the use of the flashback in the film (I think I've defended the film quite nicely, if I say so myself). I think SOM, TK&I, and FDS are wonderful films too. Join in with some posts of your own.

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By the way, Bob, the deletions and non-deletions on "Schindler's List" stopped making any sense to me. Sturmpioneer is over there literally praising the slaughter of Jewish children, but if I call a spade a spade I get eighty-sixed!

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Thanks rorysa, I have him ignored but I'm picking up on some of the other posters comments. As far as Carousel goes the first time I viewed Carousel was when I was very young in a theater. My dad is an artist and he loved the theater, especially musicals. If a R&H film was released we all went together as a family, in the summer we picked a play to see in downtown Chicago and I was able to see some great productions. I had no idea you were a R&H fan until you made a referrence. I need to upgrade my VHS copies to DVD. Time to get some sleep. Summer classes are unto themselves. I'll do some more postings, it'll be great to converse with normal people.

Schrödinger's Cat is Dead, Schrödinger's Cat is not Dead

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That sounds like a great way to be introduced to film musicals.

I have a special memory of my first viewing of "Carousel," the first R & H film I saw. I was born the same year as its original release. I loved movies from a very early age, and beginning at about age five I was often taken to primarily Disney films. When I was seven, I was taken to a film by my late grandfather, and I didn't realize that playing with that film as part of a double-feature was a re-release of "Carousel." As "Carousel" began, I whined that I did not want to see this, I wanted to see the movie we had come to see. I'll never forget my grandfather calmly advising me to watch it, I might like it. Did I LIKE it???!!! I was completely blown away. The songs, the story, everything. I was a changed little boy, an instant huge fan of people named Rodgers and Hammerstein. I immediately went home and found that my mother was familiar with it (she and my father were fans of musicals), and at my request she quickly wrote out for me the lyric to "If I Loved You," so I could learn to sing it. I've come to love "Carousel" even more during the countless times I've seen it since then.

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i saw a comunitty theatre production tonight the musical is a amazing

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I think Carousel was the first movie I saw as a kid, and there were some teen-age girls sitting behind me absolutely sobbing uncontrolably at the end. Several years later when I saw the film again on tv, I understood why they were sobbing! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

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One of the many things that separates "Carousel" from other musicals: its emotion.

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I agree with rorysa. Where in this film is spouse beating promoted? Billy is a flawed person, and suffers tragically for his choices. And as for Julie loving him inspite of it, things are not completely changed even nowadays...women still stay in abusive relationships. She also suffers tragically for her choices. This film has more adult themes, with complex people in complex relationships. People don't always do the "right" thing. A dark subject with unhappy ending (probably why it was not as great a boxoffice performer). Meant to provoke discussion, which it still does to this day!

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I love it. I don't see how beating is being promoted either. On the contrary - everyone disapproves, & Billy's lucky that Julie stands by him. She says it's because he's unhappy & I agree with that. He's not EVIL. As he says to the Starkeeper, he found married life difficult to adjust to, & I think he's ashamed of himself for not providing properly for Julie, not being the husband he should, but his pride comes first, which is one reason why he doesn't accept the job on Enoch's boat. And the robbery is because he wants to provide for his unborn child. It's all so sad.

And while it doesn't have the usual happy ending (lovers finally getting together etc), Louise is happier by the end, Julie seems content enough & Billy goes back to heaven with a lighter conscience, so in the way that's a happy ending. And while the plot's a lot darker than most other musicals, I find it compelling, & the score is magical.

Catriona x


[green]"A little love never spoiled anybody" - Kitty Moran, "My Blue Heaven" [green]

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It wasn't that Julie "needed to put up with" the way Billy treated her. Julie loved Billy despite the way he treated her.

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it's my favorite Rodgers and Hammerstein musical simply because it takes place in New England, which is home. Also, I love the music.

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