This film is an atrocity - Carousel (1956) Discussion

[–] Harold_Robbins 18 years ago

Yeah, sure.

"I don't use a pen: I write with a goose quill dipped in venom!"---W. Lydecker

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[–] boxerrebellion 11 years ago

The OP overstates the point, but this is my least favorite R&H music; I really love the others, and could easily go the rest of my life never seeing this. All of the songs are what community theatre groups refer to as 'bathrooms songs' - the song where people get up and go to the bathroom. They bring the story to a screeching halt. Yes, there are some classics there, but there is no rousing song; there is no Lonely Goatherd or Shall We Dance to get us moving.

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[–] JacksSeethingLeftEyebrow 11 years ago

"You'll Never Walk Alone?" It's only the official anthem for The Kop...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You'll_Never_Walk_Alone

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[–] soulful01 10 years ago

Absolutely! Thanks for point this out. In addition to "You'll Never Walk Alone", "If I Loved You" also has entered the main-stream of culture beyond the musical.

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[–] Isaac5855 18 years ago

Wow, don't hold back, how do you really feel about this movie?

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[–] bsharporflat 18 years ago

In my opinion, the songs "If I Loved You" and "You'll Never Walk Alone" are timeless classics. Shirley Jones is achingly perfect. Some of the dance routines are a lot of fun. The actress who plays Louise is a very nice screen presence. These make up for other shortcomings.

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[–] Isaac5855 18 years ago

Shirley Jones is achingly perfect.

I couldn't agree more...Jones was flawless in this film.

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[–] onepotato2 18 years ago

painfully stupid characters I couldn't give a rats *** about singing songs I can't sit through.

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[–] tuss_bear 18 years ago

Sadly, "Carousel" is not an outstanding film. That being said, there are many worse musical films--"My Fair Lady" and "Mame" both spring to mind. At least "Carousel" has people who have excellent voices (such as Gordon MacRae, Shirley Jones, Claramae Turner and Robert Rounsville) singing one of the most glorious scores of the American musical theatre.

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[–] IFeelLikeAnActor 18 years ago

My Fair Lady is brilliant
How can anyone think it is "worse" like Mame.
Please.
You must be crazy.

"Let's Surrender."
"Never."

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[–] rorysa 18 years ago

Yeah, not too many people would equate "My Fair Lady" and "Mame."

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[–] Isaac5855 18 years ago

You think the film verison of MT FAIR LADY is worse than the film verison of CAROUSEL? Why?

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[–] rorysa 18 years ago

My grades are 'A+' for "Carousel" and 'A' for "My Fair Lady."

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[–] petersj-2 17 years ago

Look I did not mind Mame but even I cannot see how anyone can put it in the same league as ac masterpiece like My Fair Lady.
Carousel is brilliant. Very brave even today because it deals with a very unconventional human love story. It is a very dark story and as good as, if not better than, Oklahoma.

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[–] Spheer2002 16 years ago

The Reason this film sticks is this...

"Yes Darling is is possible for someone to be hit by someone real hard .. and it not to hurt one little bit"

oooh you poor battered house wife !
oh i deeply love him and when he beats me and abuses me its ok because I love him inside and he loves me......
WTF
ok product of its times ill buy that
but really,, thats where it falls short

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[–] RedRhonnie 15 years ago

I have never understood why people like this film so much! And it's because I can't understand why people have took Billy & Julie's relationship to heart! Billy is a nasty wife-beating piece of scum!

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[–] Mrsspikealike25 15 years ago

That is actually a really good point.

I was really enjoying the film up until that moment....
Then I laughed and switched it off.
Its probably the one of the worst lines in cinematic history.

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[–] dmnemaine 15 years ago

Apparently you do not know much about battered women. The majority of battered women actually love and defend the abuser, many feeling that they somehow "deserve" the abuse. Julie Jordan is a classic example of a woman in an abusive relationship.

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[–] thesnowleopard 9 years ago

At first, I couldn't understand why everyone was piling on poor "Auntie Mame" and then I realized you all meant that godawful Lucille Ball remake. Never mind. Carry on.

This film has never done much for me. It's overlong and overdepressing, and I'm not fond of the plot. That said, it does have some nice songs ("You'll Never Walk Alone," especially) and good dance sequences.

Apparently you do not know much about battered women. The majority of battered women actually love and defend the abuser, many feeling that they somehow "deserve" the abuse. Julie Jordan is a classic example of a woman in an abusive relationship.

This I have to take issue with. I actually know quite a lot about battered women. I don't object, per se, to Julie being portrayed as one, or as still struggling with the aftereffects of her horrible marriage and its horrible end. However, the story appears to condone that line toward the end as being an illustration of Julie's true and enduring love for her dead husband, rather than her codependency (which is what defending abuse is really about).

Even worse, it's in a scene where she is passing along the same corrosive message to the next generation, directly contradicting the graduation scene shortly afterward, in which Billy encourages his daughter to believe in herself. When I saw that, I thought, "Oh, no, Julie, NO." I think such a message absolutely deserves challenge and pushback from the audience, especially in this day and age.

Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com

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[–] npaxton-3 11 years ago

That line is right up there with, "Love means never having to say you're sorry" - ugh!

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[–] lordhack_99 15 years ago

I agree that this is a bad film. Aside from the infuriatingly distracting looped dialogue in the outdoor scenes, the characters are sad and depressing. That scene on the pier with Jigger and Billy, talking about a robbery, leading up to the revelation that Billy is a dad... egad, how long was that, eleven hours and ten minutes or something? Followed by a dreary song about being a papa... And that Snow guy! I was about to ask Jigger if he minded lending me his knife.

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[–] rorysa 15 years ago

I'd stick with Disney films if I were you, which fortunately I'm not.

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[–] papalarryh 17 years ago

While I must admit that "CAROUSEL" is not one of my favorite R&H musicals, I do agree with you that "If I Loved You" and "You'll Never Walk Alone" are indeed timeless classics. Every time I hear either one, it brings tears to my eyes! My overall favorite R&H musical is the incomparable "Oklahoma". I directed a stage version of it 15 years ago. "Carousel" does have it's moments though. The ballet scene with Louise is one of the best on film. I didn't realize for a long time that the young lady that played Louise also played Zaneeta Shinn in "The Music Man". 'Yee Gods', remember that line? And of course, the finale in "Carousel" is a real tearjerker. I definitely do not agree with "icyrain", but I will defend to the end his/her right to say what was said. That is one of the rights and privileges that makes this country of our's so wonderful. Thanks for listening, Papa Larry H.

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[–] shulma2002 15 years ago

The songs "If I Loved You" and "You'll Never Walk Alone" are timeless classics. As far as this being the worst movie musical ever, I can think of others, such as "Oklahoma", "Paint Your Wagon", and even "An American in Paris". Moviegoers did not flock to see this film because of the plot regarding life and death and wrong choices in whom we love but it had a very profound meaning which I didn't understand when I saw it back in 1956 but now I appreciate it. The premise that we get 1 day to return to earth to help loved ones is mind-boggling.

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[–] elaineevans7 10 years ago

No wonder it bombed at the box office! A lot of people hated this movie as it was too dark!

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[–] LionHearted99 18 years ago

Why even respond to this idiot? He's just trying to call attention to his/her miserable, wretched soul because he has nothing else to say.

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[–] tarhealer 17 years ago

"That Snow guy" (Robert Rounsville) has the most beautiful tenor voice I've ever heard, but -- IMHO -- it is much better displayed in the British production of Offenbach's Tales of Hoffman than in Carousel.

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[–] sfwmson 17 years ago

Lionhearted is right...trolls are just thet....anyone with a brain can see carousel is not an actrocity....if the poster didn't like it, why do they bother to post on the page?

Trollin trollin trollin....

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[–] theFoss 17 years ago

I never realized that only positive reviews and comments are permissible! The guy spent the time to view the film and comment on it...every one has their own tastes...For myself I encourage the viewing of this film to see Shirley Jones in her prime, but, that doesn't change my opinion that this is one of the worst librettos for a musical that was committed to film.

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[–] rorysa 17 years ago

A libretto is the text of a work for the musical theater. What is it you don't like: Molnar's "Liliom," Hammerstein's libretto for "Carousel," or the Ephrons' screenplay? And why?

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[–] theFoss 17 years ago

Rorysa,

Hammerstien's libretto and Ephrons screenplay share fault for my dissatisfaction for this film. In my opinion, the "conflict" between the romantic leads and the "redemption" of the leading man are so shallow that the plot as a whole doesn't engage this viewer. Lack of depth of characters, little humor, a pervasive mean-spiritedness of the supporting characters all detract from the film also. See my comment on the film for details of why I dislike both the film and the musical play on which this film was based.

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[–] critic-2 17 years ago

Foss,
FYI, the non-musical "Liliom", by Ferenc Molnar (which is the basic source for "Carousel") was once considered one of the great classics of world theatre. It remained so from 1921 to 1945, the year that "Carousel" opened on Broadway. "Carousel" is quite faithful to "Liliom", overall. Since 1945, "Carousel" has been frequently revived on the stage in the U.S., but not "Liliom", while "Liliom" has continued to be revived in Europe, much more often than "Carousel".

And the recent DVD release of the 1934 film of "Liliom", starring Charles Boyer and directed by Fritz Lang, has sparked renewed interest in the Molnar play.

So much for your "bad libretto".

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[–] rorysa 17 years ago

As you say, the principal change made by R & H in adapting "Liliom" was adding the inspirational and hopeful (not to mention very moving) graduation scene. "Liliom" essentially ends with the mother telling her daughter that it's possible to hit someone and it not hurt at all. There is no redemptive return to the afterlife by Liliom.

I think Hammerstein's libretto was wonderful, and the Ephrons' screenplay was brilliant, as I've explained on other threads.

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[–] theFoss 17 years ago

Critic-2 and rorysa...Chacun à son goût

I admit to not being overly familiar with "Lilliom", other than having read that Hammerstein had HIS libretto based upon it. It wouldn't be the first time, nor will it be the last time that tone and tambre of a story could be changed in translation and adaptation.

Rorysa does point out the altered ending from "Lilliom" with the addition of the graduation for "Carousel". This ending simply neither moved or inspired me.

The inclusion of stand-offish Maine charicatures as supporting characters, IMO, made for a coldness and distance in my mustering much affection or sympathy for any of characters.

I also admit to having disliked the musical play from which this film was based, therefore I admit bias. I have been involved with many amateur productions of musical plays, including Carousel, as a violist. And am quite familiar with both the stage and film versions of this R & H tale.

Certainly I am not meaning to be a troll, and answered rorysa's direct query to my defense of another poster who shares my negative opinion of this film. I view this site as a forum for debate as well as for information, and, no opposing views makes for limited debate, so I welcome your opinions in support of this film, although we may disagree.

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[–] rorysa 17 years ago

No one can argue that "Carousel" is for all tastes, but I can think of no other musical that has so grown in popularity over the years--it has always been a critical success, as evidenced by Time Magazine's naming it best musical of the twentieth century.

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[–] mlumiere 17 years ago

Quite the opposite! I wonder if you think "Plan 9 from Outer Space" is a masterpice?!" lol

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[–] rorysa 17 years ago

What the Hell are you talking about?

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[–] gaelicguy 17 years ago

I'm not nearly as impressed with what Time Magazine has to say when I've heard and read that Rodgers was proudest of Carousel, above all others -- quite a statement, considering his prodigious body of work. It's a safe bet that Rodgers selected, with great relish, his Carousel waltz to conduct on the 1954 recording, "Rodgers Conducts Rodgers."

I don't think the film is an atrocity at all. I've seen in for the first time in a while last week and it's impressive -- I've always been somewhat ambiguous about Shirley Jones' Julie. I'm a great fan of hers, like her characterization very much, but I never cared for her vocal performance in the film. However, she did win me over in my most recent viewing.

I think the problem, such as it is, with the film, is that it never does rise to the majestic level of the stage play and I really dislike Billy's 'accident' in the film as opposed to his more cowardly (and probably more honest to his character) suicide in the show.

A very good friend of mine says it best, IMO -- whatever its flaws or foibles, it's a movie that tries very hard.

Edit: Happy Belated Birthday to Richard Rodgers - he'd have turned 106 yesterday, June 28.

If you can't improve the silence, DO NOT SPEAK!

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[–] Siel_O 17 years ago

i agree with you completely, so disappointing and bad.

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[–] SusanJL 17 years ago

I saw Carousel yesterday for the first time, and was not impressed. I couldn't understand Julie's attraction for Billy AT ALL - it was as if she had married Jud from Oklahoma. A man who hits his wife and daughter is a coward and a bully. He could have had a job - but was too arrogant to work on a herring boat. I thought he was a total loser, a big blowhard with the worst judgment possible!! But I do love a lot of the songs.

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[–] rorysa 17 years ago

Too bad you weren't impressed by the story, but at least you liked the tremendous song score.

Billy and Jud may share some traits, but I wouldn't go so far as to say falling for one was like falling for the other. Billy was a popular "entertainer" and lady's man. "All the girls're crazy fer ya," Julie tells him.

I think Julie's attraction for Billy was, at least at the beginning, mainly physical. He was a swaggering attraction. She probably felt very good about the fact that of all the girls at the carousel, Billy had finally noticed her and was obviously attracted to her.

Then, the two scenes that immediately precede their marriage seem to reveal something else. Though popular, Billy seems lonesome to her--she tells him she has stayed so he wouldn't be left alone. Billy also appears to be rather immature and half-cocked--Julie may want to mother him.

Finally, it's not easy to judge attraction from the outside. The blossoms were just coming down by themselves--"jest their time to, I reckon."

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[–] joeparkson 16 years ago

There are many examples of women who love and marry jerks. Billy is a bum and he knows it. After it's too late, he feels one of the most terrible things one can feel; the desire to make amends and not be able to. If anything enobles Billy, it's his love for Julie and her love for him. Without that he would have lived and died like the lazy bum he was, and be remembered by no one.

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[–] sweetloveu22 16 years ago

Whatever mate.

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[–] rsgre 15 years ago

Took another look recently and was more foregiving this time. Still very slow and silly, but at least everyone tries hard to make the unbelievable story seem believable. The problem is that the story seems to be a silly tribute to 3 losers: Julie, Billie, and Jigger who are incredibly dumb. It's hard to feel sympathy for such stupid people...the movie tries hard, but mostly in vain.
(The botched robbery attempt especially..how dumb can you get..??!!)
The last scenes are best with Billy coming back trying to redeem himself,and the nicely done carousel ballet sequence.

RSGRE

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[–] lordhack_99 15 years ago

Good points by all. No, it is not an 'atrocity', and some of the songs are thrilling. RSGRE hit it succinctly. Take away the songs, and this story, the direction, the characters are cures for a sunny day.

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[–] brandg56 15 years ago

It's far more superior than "Pipe Dream," R&H's musical adaptation of John Steinbeck's "Cannery Row."

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