I'll go you one further. Not only was her performance fantastic, it was so amazing that she 'retired the role.' What that means is, well ... you see, when an actor does a role that is so good, so compelling, so spot on and phenomenal, I consider it retiring the role. Like when in football they retire the number on a jersey. It means that the actor did such a stupendous job that for anyone else to play that role again would be only wanting. The actor that 'retired' the role did the best job that can be played in that part. The part can never be played again because it has been done by that actor to its highest, most pinnacle performance humanly possible. Other retirings were, Al Pacino as Michael in The Godfather I & II. Robert Deniro in Raging Bull. Marlon Brando in On the Water front. James Stewart in just about everything. And yes, Marilyn Monroe in Bus Stop, ret.
She had some decent, even very good performances in other movies, but nothing like this. This was almost divinely inspired and I found myself even a little weirded out, considering that it's Marilyn Monroe.
I don't know how it happens, but there are some performances by otherwise merely adequate, sometimes even bad actors, that for some strange reason all the planets align, the universe is in perfect string theory balance and it all comes together to allow them to turn in a wonderful piece of acting far and away above what they are previously known for: Rock Hudson in Pillow Talk, ret. Val Kilmer in Tombstone, ret. Bill Clinton in the Oval Office, ret. Those are all actors not known for good performances, but they somehow got lucky, or the gods loaned them temporal talent, I don't know. Whatever it is, although very rare, it has been known to happen, as It did with Marilyn Monroe in But Stop.
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Veltaine
12 years ago
Joekeck, it was not so much the gods loaned her temporal inspiration, more like she was instilled with it at birth. But she was only on very rare occasions, such as here in Bus Stop, given the oppurtunity to show it.
Marilyn in Bus Stop is one of the best performances I've seen from any actress in any film, ever. Don't ask me to explain, it just is.
"My car is outside."
"Naturally."
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joekeck7
12 years ago
Thanks, Veltaine.
You mentioned another film she was great in. Don't Bother Knocking? I'll have to see that one, don't think I have.
A question, though. If, as you say, that ability has been there the whole time "at birth" you said, then why did it not show in all her films. In Some Like it Hot she was only adequate. 7 Hear Itch, and others, nowhere near Bus Stop. Why?
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Veltaine
12 years ago
Don't Bother To Knock.
Well, you have to consider the limitations of the material. She did what she could with what was offered - in a lot of her roles, such as Seven Year Itch, or Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, etc, the only thing the script required of her, if I may use Beau's word, was to 'gleam'. And she did. Can you imagine any other actress being able to illuminate the screen to such an extent with such one-dimensional characters?
Many people, including myself, actually find her performance in Some Like It Hot excellent. She was a great comedienne.
You're right though in saying that none of her other roles can hold a candle to that in Bus Stop. Cherie was the first three-dimensional character she took on. You have to realise how controlling Hollywood was/is, they tried dilligently to put her off the idea of becoming a 'serious actress'. But for a brief period she was able to defy them, and she immersed herself in the character. She showed what she could do.
After this, though, it was back to the 'dumb blonde' roles.
"My car is outside."
"Naturally."
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joekeck7
12 years ago
I agree, Veltaine, but let us remember other's who 'accidentally' turn in a great performance. Just how much of Monroe's performance was in her oft unseen talent, or 'just one of those inexplicable things,' who knows.
Regardless, Marilyn Monroe's Cherie . . . (ahem) . . . was fantastic.
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Veltaine
12 years ago
Well, when it comes to any art form, are there really any accidents? An unknown poet who writes a great, famous poem but gets no other recognition for the rest of his life is clearly a talented poet.
Anyway, no need for quibbling, we are both agreed on Marilyn's wonderful turn.
"My car is outside."
"Naturally."
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joekeck7
12 years ago
Yes, Veltaine, we are in agreement on her performance. But I have a theory. If you get the chance, you might take a look at it. Don't know how to link it, or I would. This is the address- http://www.joekeck.com/joekeck/lets_talk/Entries/2008/7/29_Good_Fiction_Is_Not_Created.html
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Veltaine
12 years ago
An interesting theory, Joe. There's nothing concrete that can be said about something as tenuous as talent. It's eternally open to interpretation.
"My car is outside."
"Naturally."
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joekeck7
12 years ago
Thanks, Veltaine.
By the way, just saw 'Don't Bother to Knock', and I think I may have figured it out . . . maybe.
I think it just might be the director. Monroe's performance in the above film was not bad, but not good. Although she had some very nice moments. So given her performance in 'Bus Stop' and it's amazing heights of artistic excellence, that leads me to wonder if it is the fault of the director's touch that got that great 'retiring' acting from her. Note that 'Bus Stop' didn't have the 'Marylin' mouth antics we see in so many of her movies. She even did it in 'Don't Bother to Knock'.
Let's keep in mind that the film is the director's, not the actor's.
I picture the director of 'Bus Stop' saying, "No no, Marylin, you did it again, honey. Don't do that 'O' thing with your mouth when you articulate your words. Just play it straight."
Don't know, just a theory.
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Veltaine
12 years ago
I think Monroe in Don't Bother To Knock is genuinely unsettling. If she gave me a look like the one she gives the child, I certainly wouldn't mess with her! What's important about this film though is that it was the last time she actually played the character in the film before she started playing Marilyn Monroe. That's what we have to keep in mind. Marilyn Monroe was a character. But here, we have Norma-Jean playing Nell Forbes.
The film was poorly-scripted, directed disinterestedly by a film-maker who was most likely just assigned to it by the studio, and completed within a few weeks. I personally think she did a very fine job with the limited material.
Naturally, it is always the director's film. At least it was in those days. Now the actors have a lot more say. Funnily enough, Marilyn was actually the first actress in Hollywood to truly assert her will, and that was in Bus Stop. But all in all, if a director doesn't want something in his film, he won't have it in his film. Actors work within the boundaries imposed by the various parties involved.
"My car is outside."
"Naturally."
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joekeck7
12 years ago
"Marilyn Monroe was a character. But here, we have Norma-Jean playing Nell Forbes."
I agree completely.
"Funnily enough, Marilyn was actually the first actress in Hollywood to truly assert her will, and that was in Bus Stop."
Didn't know that. Might lend weight to my, 'it's the director's incompetence directing her that is the problem."
Not only that, I believe it was Josh Logan, a very good director, that did Bust Stop.
Yes, I think we are in agreement for the most part. It's just too bad there weren't more artistically minded or talented, whichever, directors guiding all her performances. We might have had many 'Bus Stop' level performances from the most fantastic looking and sexiest - to understate - woman in film history, and probably the entire cosmic aeon universe.
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Veltaine
12 years ago
Yes, she'd just walked out on her contract at the studio, set up her own production company and bought the screen rights to Bus Stop. She then dived into Method acting, which caused a lot of problems on set.
I agree that that was the biggest problem. Directors didn't want her to 'act', they wanted her to pout and wiggle. Films were profit, pure and simple. More emphasis was put on film as art in Europe - Italy, France, etc, but not so much in America. Perhaps she should have left films altogether and went on the stage. Infact I think that was her plan at some point.
'...probably the entire cosmic aeon universe.'
Amen to that!
"My car is outside."
"Naturally."
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joekeck7
12 years ago
Plans for the stage. Interesting.
Pout and wiggle, yes, that was most likely the problem. Maybe fat-cat producers getting full of themselves and putting their hand in the artistic bowl when their only talent is big bank roll.
Alexander Macendrick (spelling?), director of the wonderful 'The Sweet Smell of Success' actually stopped directing and went into teaching film. His reason was that a director couldn't make his own movie. Too many fingers in the pie. The actors want it this way, the writer wants it that way, the studio wants that other, the producer wants yet something else. He threw his hands up and quit over it. Which is sad, because he at least did an amazing job, and I don't use that word lightly, with the above mentioned movie.
But it is tragic - not to lessen Monroe's death - that someone who can do such a fantastic job with 'Bus Stop' didn't have the chance to do it with other roles as well.
But hey, money's the game, I guess.
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Veltaine
12 years ago
I've never seen Sweet Smell of Success. Though I've heard many good things about it. But yes, I can imagine his disenchantment. Artistic vision was a rare quality in Hollywood.
Well, the world she was born into wasn't a sympathetic one. I know that's an understatement. She was cursed, to a large extent. But hey, she's a myth. There'll never be an end to speculation about what she could have achieved.
"My car is outside."
"Naturally."
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