MovieChat Forums > The Man with the Golden Arm (1956) Discussion > something that's always bothered me

something that's always bothered me

posted 19 years ago by wilbrifar
12 replies | jump to latest

I love this film, but something has always bugged me about it since I first saw it as a kid.

The bad guys will do anything to keep "Frankie Machine" from leaving the table, because they supposedly can't get another dealer as good as him. Please forgive me if I'm being dense, but why do you need an expert DEALER in a game unless you're cheating or something. The guys hosting the game insist you need a pro to deal the cards, but wouldn't everyone at the table be upset at this? Wouldn't you rather just have your grandma or somebody come deal the cards to keep it fair? This whole "we need the best" attitude over a guy whose job is simply to deal the cards seems ridiculous, unless they're openly admitting to all the players that they're going to get cheated. Anyone's thoughts on this?

[–] elm0catt 19 years ago

it actually is explained somewhat in the film.

Since it is an ongoing illegal game and not a legitimate casino, the house refers to the person running and putting the money up for the game. Just like in a regular casino, the players bet against the house. Just like a casino, the house stands to make a lot of money.

But as the house owner in the film states, "The dealer makes the house."

Big money gamblers want a challenge not someone's grandma. They want someone that will give them a good game. Just like when you want to play a game of chess with someone, you want them to be on your level. It is no fun if it is too easy and no fun if you just get immediatley crushed either.

It is not a question of being fair because as the dealer states in the film, when asked to cheat, that he does not do that. So it is a fair game.

The house owners wanted the dealer there because he was a great player. He can bluff the best of them and hence make them money.

The big money gamblers want the dealer there so they can have a good and challenging game. For the most part, big money gamblers are not in the game for the money but for the excitment of the game. Don't get me wrong, of course they want to win but that is not generally why they do it.

[–] TequilaMockingbird5150 18 years ago

They don't want a challenge, they only want to make money. The whole point of it was that Frankie Machine was a card mechanic, he could manipulate the cards to the houses favor if need be.

All they care about is the bottom line. That is why they do it.

The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. Samuel Beckett

[–] TeaTaker 18 years ago

I am afraid that you ARE being just a bit dense. The two who already posted about 'what gamblers like' kind of answered you, but not entirely.

Here is what you failed to 'catch': He is NOT "merely the dealer", rather, he IS the one making all the decisions and 'plays' for 'the house.'

He is the one who calls, raises, and bets. He is the one who successfully, or not, bluffs.

Those who 'sit in for him' lack his guts, nerve, and 'smarts.'

He leaves the most climatic game WAY ahead (for 'the house') yet by the time he comes back seeking his 'fix' the substitute has lost and gone deep into the hole. The 'house' tries desperately to try to obtain loans in order to keep the game going so that they hopefully will win it all back. Then, they 'force' Frankie to cheat.

Clearly, he NEVER DID BEFORE, and he bungled it badly with what is known as a 'pass' to get really technical. I know all about such things, having done demonstrations of 'Professional Card Cheating' ... but that isn't the point, the message is that Frankie "Machine" (not a coincidence, Proffessional Card Cheats ARE CALLED "Mechanics") is a SKILLED player, and never had to rely upon CHEATING...for him, it was MAGIC, done for entertainment, prior.

Go back and see his cigarette tricks, and ATTEMPTS to 'pick a card' for his wife, when he explains that he handles the cards as a form of escape, to keep himself busy and soothe his nerves. He does NOT cheat at cards, for money. He has that latent 'ability' which 'the house' forces him to TRY to use, with disasrous results.

That is 'the answer' you seek.

[–] elk-run 18 years ago

Another interesting movie centered around a marathon card game is The Cincinnati Kid with Steve McQueen and Edward G. Robinson. In this movie, Karl Malden is brought in strictly to deal, without any participation in the betting. He was the consensus choice of all sides because of his reputation as a straight dealer. He begins to cheat only at the end due to pressure from McQueen's backer. McQueen takes him to task for this and, well...watch it for yourself. That was a good movie by a yound Norman Jewison who starts to show some of the flourishes that will win him an oscar for In the Heat of the Night.

As for Frankie, he is a dealer with backers. He is not there to maintain neutrality, but to be a moneymaker for the house. He has a reputation as a straight dealer (which is the only reason anyone will play against him) but he also has a reputation as to being the best as a great player (bluffing, knowing how and when to raise and fold). This is the reason the house wants him. He is a good choice for all parties. If the house holds the advantage, why don't the players start their own game with thier own dealer? The house assumes the risk with regards to getting busted for staging illegal games, and they have to be able to bankroll a larger amount because they are playing against everyone at the table.

[–] fireball718 18 years ago

Why do you have to be such a condescending jackass? The guy came here to find an answer from other film buffs and he got treated like crap. Seriously, cheer up. It's only a movie. I say this for your own good. You're better than that.

[–] lathe-of-heaven 17 years ago

Damn straight! I like my Jackasses to be more humble, kind, compassionate and all around nice guys. SCREW the condescending ones I say!!!

(I know, I know... Just couldn't resist... )

ILOVEtrading films!I've got a HUGE..uh..collection!Please ask!

____L@th3

[–] JustPassingTime 17 years ago

I think it is obvious that he was responding to TequilaMockingbird5150 not the original poster (though the indent indicates that he replied to the OP). I thought his response was right on... Tequila WAS being dense!

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] TequilaMockingbird5150 10 years ago

I was speaking of gamblers in general. Most just want to win, and many would be hesitant to play against a known card mechanic such as Frankie Machine, knowing full well that he could stack the deck, deal off of the bottom, etc. without them realizing it.

Gambling for most, is about winning money.

The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. Samuel Beckett

[–] realitycomments 10 years ago

I thought his explanation was excellent and informative. He called the OP dense and that's pretty mild on these boards.

[–] The_TJT 9 years ago

I think OP actually had a point...

Yes, Frankie was called a "dealer" but also normally made the calls how the house plays. (except when the house (aka his boss) didn't let him)

However OP has a point, it didn't make much sense that Frankie would be both playing AND dealing the cards. Normally the dealer is NOT one of the players in these sort of films, to ensure that no player is cheating.

Of course if the house would have provided another dealer then he could have cheated as well, yet still the role of dealer in the film did seem highly irregular. Does in real life some casino have a house dealer on poker table who plays at the same time?

This irregular dealer arrangement bothered me a bit, and also that Frankie didn't get any money (or drugs) after the house lost... but other than that this is a damn good film.

[–] Jes' Sayin' (6544) 4 years ago

The part that was really dubious was that he was in terrible shape and everyone could see it, but they still wanted him to play. Didn't think about the possibility that he could lose due to impairment?