To Sir with Love


I love that film so much more and how funny that Sidney Poitier is a teacher in that movie!

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"I miss Dwight. Congratulations, Universe. You win."

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I saw that film about 10 years ago. I think it's the unofficial sequel to this film.

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Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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Actually, To Sir, With Love is based on a different novel than Blackboard Jungle and while it has obvious (if broad) similarities to the latter it has nothing to do with the earlier film, even unofficially. But I'm sure Poitier's casting wasn't entirely accidental.

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I know. My comment was tongue-in-cheek. Of course it's not an actual sequel.

Both films are good, but I do get a bit annoyed with the "teacher transforms the kids in a matter of weeks" theme.

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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Well, you didn't say it was an actual sequel to BJ, but an "unofficial sequel", which is how some people think about it. That didn't sound tongue-in-cheek. Anyway, my point is that they were based on different novels, though TSWL (which I don't much care for) is obviously similar to Blackboard Jungle and explores the same subject.

I agree, I'm tired of this "dedicated teacher motivates his poor and rowdy class" storyline. Routine and uninspiring by now.

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Not only "routine and uninspiring", but also unrealistic. Unfortunately, too many people are convinced that this is how it is in the real world, and they expect teachers to really be like this.

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Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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All true, but the same hackneyed storyline has been selling movie tickets since Goodbye, Mister Chips and will no doubt be dredged up again to sell more.

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I love Goodbye, Mr. Chips (the 30s version). In fact, that film is still one of the more realistic teacher-films (for lack of a better phrase). This teacher doesn't wave his magic wand and transform all the students in a four week period. The film shows him developing as a teacher over the period of his life. He got through to some students, but not to others. The 90s film Mr. Holland's Opus is like that, too. Those two films are exceptions to the rule.

Then there's Dead Poets Society, where the English teacher is basically allowed to do anything he wants with his students and no one seems to say anything about it. I'm not very clear on when any of them wrote essays, etc. I used to like this film (when I didn't know any better), but now I wouldn't watch it. This movie is sort of the opposite extreme of what I was complaining about earlier in this thread: in this movie, the teacher is expected to inspire students who already have all the opportunities in the world.

Finally there's junk like the 90s film The Mirror Has Two Faces, in which a math teacher meets an English teacher and, of course, he's the one who has to "learn about life" from her because he's the math guy. I wonder if Hollywood is capable of shedding their tiresome stereotypes? (This movie is simply horrible.)

Maybe I should just stay away from films in which teachers are the main characters. 

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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I like 1939's Chips too, and there are certainly good films on this broad subject. It's the smarmy, cloying ones that are nothing but clichés and rigged plots to make the audience reach the expected emotional response, like the overrated and predictable Dead Poets Society, that are irritating.

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I can't believe that I used to like Dead Poets Society! 

I think it's because my mom hyped it up so much when I was a young teen. She liked the "carpe diem" theme. The only problem is that these rich boys wouldn't have had a problem seizing the day, because their parents would have been willing to pay for their education (like the one father who wanted his son to be a doctor).

Those fellows (in Dead Poets Society) didn't behave like high school fellows, either. They behaved like a bunch of 13 year old girls.

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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The kids in Dead Poets Society may have been privileged but their lives were controlled and directed by their parents and a conformist headmaster. That was why their teacher Robin Williams urged them to "seize the day" -- to take control of their own lives, do what they wanted to do, not what their rich parents told them they had to do. Oftentimes it's harder to take control of your own life when you come from money or influence than when you have little. At least then there aren't conventions and expectations holding you down or keeping you in a gilded cage.

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Fair enough, but what exactly DID he want them to do? He had all sorts of activities for them during English class, but all that would have had to come to an end when he realized that he couldn't issue them grades for their work, because they hadn't done any work. As for the secret society, didn't the teacher think that these fellows would get in trouble if it was found out that they were doing this?

I realize that the teacher meant well, but ultimately he was getting involved in something that sadly wasn't his business.

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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Well, of course everything you said goes to the problems with the movie. It's all very contrived and by-the-numbers, with the subtlety of a bowling ball dropped on your head.

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Also, I think that when teachers start to teach at new schools, they should find out the culture of the school beforehand.

In Blackboard Jungle, the teachers should have known that it's a dangerous environment and they should have avoided things like bringing records to class, wearing provocative clothing (female teachers), getting drunk in the school's neighborhood, etc.

In Dead Poets Society, the new teacher knew that he was starting out at a private school for rich older teen males. The film is set in the 50s, so what did he expect besides the pressure to conform?

These films show these teachers trying work miracles in environments where, frankly, they should have minded their own business and gone with the "status quo", so to speak. I'm no fan of conformity, but they had no choice in this matter. At the end of Dead Poets Society, the teacher was simply given the boot and that was that. The students acted like they supported him, but if the story continued for a bit longer, they would have had to get right back to conforming. It's not like the teacher accomplished much in the long run.

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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Oddly enough, I just saw the last 20 minutes of Dead Poets Society this afternoon, and while I'd like to see the entire film again (it's been years) that ending is even more contrived, one-dimensional and obvious than I remembered.

I have no problems with teachers who try to get their students to see beyond their narrow environs and understand their potential better, to make them think and assess and be independent. In fact, a teacher who simply conforms and doesn't take some risks (not physical, but in terms of how he conducts his profession) isn't worth much, and I think most teachers do make an effort to help their students.

Obviously the teachers in Blackboard Jungle should have had enough sense to understand what kind of school they were in. It's a bit disconcerting to think just how unbelievably naïve, or maybe just downright stupid, they were in their behavior -- the records, tight dress, drinking, etc. -- or that they didn't realize there'd be at least some difficulties with the students.

Nonetheless, I do think they needed to make some effort to reach the kids and get them to see their potential...in fact their jobs would only have meaning if they made some such effort. (The veteran teacher played by Louis Calhern got nowhere and hated his job, but it's made clear that a big part of his dissatisfaction is his own fault, stemming from his own lack of interest and motivation.) So on that score I think the ones who try to reach the students are on the right track. They can't just "mind their own business". The welfare of their students is their business, or at least part of it. But a large dollop of common sense would also be useful. That's where they fell down (in the case of the mugging, literally!).

In Dead Poets Society I think Robin Williams was right in principle to do what he did. I would quibble about some of the ways he went about doing it. My issue isn't with the plot but its execution. The film needed to be more complex, more three-dimensional, less cloying and predictable. It may be blasphemy to some people, but I always thought Williams was a poor dramatic actor when he was playing the sincere, naïve innocent, as he is in DPS and to a large extent Good Morning, Vietnam. By contrast, I thought he was superb in Awakenings (1990), playing the introverted, quiet scientist who found a way to bring patients long thought comatose back into consciousness. Robert de Niro got the Oscar nomination for playing a patient, in accordance with Hollywood's affinity for actors who play disabled people, but Williams was the one who should have been cited. It was the complexity and genuine emotion of that film that was lacking in the manipulative, simplistic DPS.

Anyway, Blackboard Jungle was a landmark movie for its time. And also one of three films to use "Rock Around the Clock" for its title tune. Know what the others were?

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That's why I prefer films like Goodbye Mr. Chips and Mr. Holland's Opus, which show the teaching profession as a life-long learning experience for the teacher, and they keep it realistic. The teachers take some risks, but not too many. They adapt to their environment, but introduce some of their own ideas...and yet they are still able to play by the school's rules. They do manage to reach out to some of the students, but not to others. Just my humble opinion...

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Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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Yes, I tend to agree with you, although for dramatic purposes I can understand a movie on this theme using a more compressed time element. It's how it's handled that's critical. I actually don't like Mr. Holland's Opus, which I also felt was contrived and derivative, a carefully staged narrative designed to tug at undemanding heartstrings and get Richard Dreyfus another Oscar nomination. (This was indeed a criticism of it at the time.) For some reason more modern films on this topic tend toward mawkishness and pat situations served with swelling, "inspirational" music and defiant triumph in place of more truly human emotions and events.

Well, since you didn't answer my question, I'll just tell you the answer anyway. Three films used Bill Haley and His Comets's "Rock Around the Clock" as their theme music over the opening credits: Blackboard Jungle (1955), of course, plus (what else?) Rock Around the Clock (1956) and American Graffiti (1973). If there are any others I don't know about them.

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I saw Mr. Holland's Opus once, about 20 years ago. It's possible that I might have a different opinion of it now.

As for the inspirational music business, I'll just say that it's common in modern films and that's one of the reasons I've been watching fewer and fewer modern films over the years.

I'll discuss music in my other reply to you. 

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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You asked me if I know which three films use "Rock Around the Clock" in the opening credits. I don't know off-hand. I'm guessing maybe American Graffiti and Diner. Something like that. Wasn't that song used for the pilot episode of Happy Days?

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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I gave you the answer in my previous post of a few minutes ago, which I posted before seeing your answer just now, figuring you'd forgotten to answer my little trivia question. You got one right -- very good!

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Well, I recall hearing a long time ago (high school, I think) that Happy Days was based on American Graffiti and that "Rock Around the Clock" was the theme song for the pilot episode. That made me think that American Graffiti might be one of the right answers. (By the way, I'm not sure if I'm right about the Happy Days trivia. I need to double-check it.)

I forgot about the film Rock Around the Clock. A couple of years ago, I checked out a bunch of those 50s and 60s films (Rock Around the Clock, Don't Knock the Rock, etc.) and the only good thing about those films was the music. I can't believe how little effort they put into the actual script and acting. Geez! The musical performances are excellent, though.

I have loved music from that time period ever since I was a preteen, but I seem to lean more towards lesser-known singers, especially if they're originally from Canada. My favourites are: Bobby Curtola, Jack Scott, Johnny Tillotson, The Beau-Marks. From that list, only Tillotson isn't Canadian-born. Bobby Curtola and the Beau-Marks never did leave Canada. Curtola lived for a long time in and around my city, and died in my city as well (last June).

I'm also very fond of: The Diamonds, Dion, Elvis Presley, Paul Anka, Bobby Darin, Buddy Holly, Jerry Wallace, Richie Valens, Sam Cooke, Gordon Lightfoot, Simon & Garfunkel, Connie Francis, Nana Mouskouri, and I like some songs by various 1960s girl groups (The Supremes, The Marvelettes, The Ronettes, The Crystals, etc.). I admit that I really prefer male singers.

As for Bill Haley, I like a few of his songs, including "Rock Around the Clock".

For post-1980 singers, the only one I can really stomach is Bryan Adams (also a Canadian boy!).

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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TCM ran several of those rock'n'roll movies one day last year, including Don't Knock the Rock and Don't Knock the Twist, both of which had almost identical scripts and situations, though made five or six years apart. All these flicks were mostly movies out of Columbia's B-picture unit and consequently not of very high quality. But they all made money.

The really bad such films were the equally cheap British rip-offs of the early 60s.

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Oh, I'm sure that those films made money, because the thought of seeing all those performers in the movies would have been appealing. Too bad that more effort couldn't have been put into the acting/scripts. At least the music is top-notch in those films.

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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[–] MsELLERYqueen2 7 years ago
Not only "routine and uninspiring", but also unrealistic. Unfortunately, too many people are convinced that this is how it is in the real world, and they expect teachers to really be like this.

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 


I realize this is several years later. I was curious as to whether you had seen Up the Down Staircase(1967)? It's a much darker, unaffected depiction of the teaching profession starring Sandy Dennis, stripped of any frills or whitewashing you see in ""teacher transforms the kids in a matter of weeks" theme." If you haven't seen it already, I highly recommend it!

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