Why did the Mexican Goverment not Like It?
This film annoyed the mexican Goverment and made it harder for other films (like the magnifiecnt seven) to be made. Why was that?
shareThis film annoyed the mexican Goverment and made it harder for other films (like the magnifiecnt seven) to be made. Why was that?
share[deleted]
I was preparing to start a post with the same question when I saw yours. I can't see why the Mexican government would have had any kick on this point. The Mexicans in the movie were portrayed as brave and noble. Is there any other source for this other than Eli Wallach? He in fact had nothing to do with this movie and may not have known what he was talking about.
On the other hand the two other nationalities involved, Americans and French, were both portrayed in a bad light. All the Americanos except for Gary Cooper's character were portrayed as cruel, scummy, scheming and mercenary. The French are portrayed as cruel, scheming, and cynical. The French would probably consider such as complimentary, and we Americans...well, we just know it is only a movie.
He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good... St. Matthew 5:45
Somehow i don't think the french would like that
In my eyes the french were shown in a positive light. But they were fooled a coupl of times by the Gringos. Maybe they were seen as dupes or pawns? Or is it possible the Mexican Goverment didn't lioke the politics of the film?
I can't see how the French were portrayed positively. Remember the count (Ceasar Romero) and Maximilian were planning to kill all the American mercenaries once they had used them for their purposes. The French countess (Denise Darcell) was as bad as Burt Lancaster's character, except for being cleaner. Above all, the French were shown as being cruel oppressers of the Mexican people, which is quite simply a historically accurate portrayal.
What politics did the movie have? Showing the Mexicans bravely and noblely fighting for their independnce against the cruel, oppressive French, who didn't have any claim on Mexico in the first place, even if their government had been benevolent. That's about it, and I don't see any reason the Mexican government or anyone else (except maybe diehard French Imperialists) would have any complaint about it.
Until I see evidence from a good source that the Mexicans actually complained about their portrayal in Vera Cruz (such as quoting a period government document), I will regard it as a groundless myth.
He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good... St. Matthew 5:45
sorry i made a mistake in my last post i should have said
"In my eyes the french were shown in a positive light. But they were fooled a coupl of times by the Gringos. Maybe they were seen as dupes or pawns?"
There didnt seem to much politics in the film but i thought that maybe it referenced some event or historical figure in Mexican history that only a mexican viewer would notice. But thats only a guess
From what I can tell by reading the IMDb trivia sections that quotes(indirectly) Eli Wallach as to the the Mexican government being offended, he is the one that started this idea based on what he heard while he was in Mexico working on The Magnificent Seven. I can only speculate that he got it 2ond or 3rd hand and got the movie they were talking about mixed up. A lot more likely Hollywood movie to have offended the South of the Border government was "Viva Zapata!" with Marlin Brando made about 3 years before Vera Cruz. It was about the 20th century Mexican civil wars, and showed real historical figures and situations, not always in a positive light.
Maximilian, of course, was a real historical figure. I don't know if the Mexican revolutionary general played by Morris Akrum was or not, but he was shown very positively in any case. Vera Cruz actually gave the Mexican revolutionaries a pretty good white wash. It didn't show how there were two competing sides, both fighting against the French as well as against each other, playing the French off against each other, the generals often switching sides and sometimes joining with the French when it suited them, all three sides killing any poor peasant suspected of supporting one of the others. Our own Civil War was going on during part of all this, and the two different Mexican groups often tried to get either the Union or the Confederate armies who were fighting on the other side of the Rio Grande involved in their own war either for money or military advantage. A Texas Confederate Colonel (Rip Ford) reported in his autobiography that during this time, a French general offered to sell him one million percussion caps (obviously to be stolen from his own army's stores).
He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good... St. Matthew 5:45
Maximilian was an Austrian and a gentleman. i lost track of who was doublecrossing who but reckon the gold rightly belonged to whoever could get and hold it!
shareYou are absolutely correct in doubting this whole “Mexican government” issue until solid facts are presented. My opinion is that it never happened. I knew personally both Cesar Romero and Sarita Montiel and we spent a lot of times discussing “Vera Cruz”. The subject of an opposition by Mexican authorities never came up. I also had the opportunity to meet Burt Lancaster before and after the 1986 Golden Eagle Awards in which he presented the “life achievement” trophy to Sarita Montiel, and he candidly spoke about “Vera Cruz” and the excellent work done by Robert Aldrich due to the difficult logistics of filming in those locations and with so many extras. Mr. Lancaster made no mention to any trouble with the Mexican government. On the contrary, it seems the government welcomed the production and supported it because 1) it employed a lot of locals 2) it attracted tourism by showing the magnificent Chapultepec Castle, the Tehuacan Pyramids, etc.
shareThanks, Mr. M___(whatsupomar). Nice to hear someone who actually knows something about the movie at least second hand! I always liked Cesar Romero. Just watched him last week in one his early numbers, Josef Von Sternberg's "The Devil is a Woman". Wow! what a movie!
Re: Operation Amsterdam post: Sarita Montiel could have walked off with me, too! She stole the show from the French hottie in Vera Cruz.
He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good... St. Matthew 5:45
I have fond memories of Mr. Cesar Romero. He was a real gentleman, a charming man with a lot of class, a personality and a very talented actor. Of course he was so good-looking that he is condemned forever to being underrated as an actor. But if you take a close look at his work you might be amazed at the variety of roles he played from Valentino-type lovers to song and dance musicals, ethnic characters and tough guys, he did it all and did it well.
In reference to Sarita Montiel you might be glad to know that she is still going strong at 82. She is a living legend in most of Europe and Latin America due to the musicals she made in the late 50s, 60s and 70s. She has sold millions of records worldwide and her autobiography was a best seller in 2000. She performs quite frequently on stages and TV, has streets named after her, a park with her bare-chested sculpture and her own museum of memorabilia open to the public.
Now that you brought up “The Devil Is A Woman” and we are in a blog discussing an alleged government opposition to a film, it’ll be fitting to mention the Dietrich-von Sternberg classic. When “Devil” was released in 1935 it shocked the Government of Spain for its “unfair treatment of Spanish characters” namely Marlene’s Concha Perez who is nothing but an outrageous harlot in the film. With the cooperation of our own State Department, the Spanish government succeeded in pulling the film out of distribution requesting from Paramount that all copies be burned. After years in which it was thought the film was lost forever, Marlene pulled out of her trick hat a mint copy which was shown at a von Sternberg film festival in 1959. Thanks to that we are able to enjoy today that marvelous production, one of the most visually astounding movies ever made.
I agree. All of Sternberg's strange and wonderful movies are visually striking, but The Devil is a Woman has to be his masterpiece. As far as the story went, it was all played for laughs anyway. The Spanish government (the pre-Franco Republic at the time) should have had more of a sense of humor about it.
He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good... St. Matthew 5:45
I agree "Devil" is von Sternberg's masterpiece. The man had quite an imagination and Dietrich owes her career to him.
shareI'm Mexican. I haven't seen this movie. Does it portray Maximilian as a bad guy? If it does, then I won't watch this movie. Maximilian along with Iturbide are heroes of my nation.
shareYou should see "Vera Cruz" because it is an excellent film not because of political content. However, if you must know, it does portray Maximilian's regime as abusive and corrupt while the "juaristas" are the freedom fighters. By the way, if you are truly Mexican you should know that in Mexico Benito Juarez is the acknowledged hero not Maximilian.
shareWow. Yes, I'm Mexican. I know about the story and culture of my country. Have read many books about it. Juárez was a lunatic and the biggest traitor México has ever had.
shareHe was aided by the Catholic church to get out of the misery. Made him a civilized person. Taught him to eat in the table, with spoons and forks. To dress in a proper manner. Juárez's payback was with ingratitude and treason to that church which had taken him out of the misery. Years later he became rich by selling church's properties. To this day,150 years later, his descendants still live happily because of the product of all that stealing. He came to power not much because of his capacities, but because of his appereance. Facing a crisis, they chose him because of his underdog image. His contemporaries define him as "a closed person" "of mediocre intelligence" and "not a very good speaker/orator". "He barely spoke or laugh". When he became the governor of Oaxaca he was a good parishioner, he urged his workers to pay tithe, confess , and commune to ask for divine help. This demonstrates his dual personality, his acommodative trailing character, always subordinate to the dominant forces of each moment. Contrary to what many think, Juárez didn't make the reform. He came to power after the Reform War, when everything had already been made by others. In reality, these laws were given to the then also Francmason Valentín Gómez Farías by the United States in 1835. Also, Juárez did not defeat the French either. They left because the United States(which supported Juárez)had already ended their civil war and could now confront the French army. This is the truth, Juárez's liberals never could defeat the French. The battle of fifth of may was just an inconsequential skirmish, the French remained invincible.
"Juárez the democrat" is another lie. In the presidential elections of 1871, Benito Juárez, Sebastián Lerdo De Tejada, and Porfirio Díaz presented themselves as candidates, resulting in Juárez as being the apparent winner, although with evident electoral frauds. So he never was the constitutional president, nor was he chosen by the people. In response, Porfirio Díaz raise up in arms with the Noria Plan to remove Juárez from power but he failed.
Juárez posed himself as president for 15 years without any respect of the existing laws. Because of this, Juárez was a dictator. Also, he killed many people. He got rid of his political enemies outside any constitutional order and murdered with impunity.
In 5 years, from 1867 to 1872, he shed more blood than the general Porfirio Díaz in 30 years. To his enemies, his phrase "respect the rights of others is peace" was never true.
Juárez, the "example of his indigenous race".
Juárez never showed to be proud of his indigenous origin. On the contrary, apparently he seemed ashamed of it. He himself married a Creole woman. And he married all of his offspring with people of caucasian origin. In an effort to get farther and farther away from his indigenous origin.
He never did anything for the indigenous people.
Juárez, "the great patriot".
The above defines him as a not very trustworthy man, ungrateful, accommodative, racist, a thief, a murderer, with an inferiority complex...But this is nothing compared to his worst aspect.....
A traitor to the fatherland.
Juárez was a Francmason, member of those American lodges, whose ultimate end was to take United States' hegemony over the world.
Ever since Juárez was the governor of Oaxaca he showed his submission or admiration for the americans. In 1847, while all of the country was fighting against them deffending the Mexican sovereignty, Juárez didn't do anything, he didn't say a word against the americans, he didn't send any soldiers to support the national defense against the worst invasion México has ever suffered which ultimately cost it to lose half its territory.
All of the Mexican Francmasons, or Hispanoamericans, where puppets either consciously or unconsciously of the United States. From Hidalgo, Bolívar, or even the liberals or Juárez himself.
All of the Masons served the american objective. First, to destroy the enormous Spanish empire by independizing its colonies. Second, to increase the United States territory at the expense of México, stealing as much territory as possible.
Juárez got tired of selling the territory to the United States with the pretext that they would recognize him as president.
He signed treaties with the United States so they could have access from the Mazatlan (steps?, only translation I could come up with) to Matamoros, Nogales to Guaymas, and all the Tehuantepec isthmus(from Tabasco to Chiapas) giving those roads to the sovereignty of the americans with permission to kill, arrest and possess lands, in the disastrous MAC LANE-OCAMPO TREATY.
If you still don't believe me, I'll show you a part of that shameful treaty, and you can verify it in any library or the internet.
Mac Lane-Ocampo treaty, an authentic jewel of the treason to the fatherland in all the history of any place.
"Treaty of transit and commerce between México and the United States underwritten by Robert Mac Lane, minister of the United States in México, and Melchor Ocampos, minister of foreign affairs of México, in Veracruz, december 14 of 1859"
Art 1.:
"To deliver the Mexican Republic to the United States and its citizens and property, in perpetuity, the right of transit across the Isthmus of Tehuantepec sea to sea, by any route that currently exists or hereafter exists"
Art. 5:
"In the exceptional case of unforeseen or imminent danger to the life or property of citizens of the United States, authorized are the forces of said republic to work in the protection of those within the Mexican territory without having obtained prior consent"
Art 7:
"The Mexican Republic grants to the United States the simple transit of its troops, military stores and munitions of war by the Isthmus of Tehuantepec, and by the transit or route of communication referred to in this Convention from the city of Guaymas, on the Gulf of California, to the Rancho de Nogales, or some suitable point on the boundary line between the Republic of Mexico and the United States"
Juárez also asked money to the United States government in support of the reforma laws, build concentration camps with the purpose of interning servicemen, ecclesiasticals and conservatives.
Fortunately for México, this shameful treaty was not carried out, thanks to the United States senate, which rejected it.....BECAUSE THEY WANTED THE COMPLETE SLICE...
For which they made a counter proposal, of the definitive purchase of Sonora, Baja California and Chihuahua for 15 million pesos.
When this proposal arrived to México, Juárez was not in power anymore, but his conservative enemies were. Who were MORE PATRIOTIC and downright rejected it.
Juárez, at that time was hiding in San Juan de Ulúa where he made another even more abject proposal. He sent Lerdo de Tejada as a liberal representative to the ambassador of the United States, telling him about the desire of Juárez to:
INVADE MÉXICO, IMPOSE ENGLISH AS THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE AND BAN THE CATHOLIC RELIGION. AND THE "AMERICANIZATION" WITH MASSIVE IMMIGRATION OF AMERICANS, AND TO IMPORT OFFICIALS TO TEACH THE MEXICAN ARMY MILITARY DISCIPLINE.
All this treason and abjection of Juárez that proposed the destruction of the Mexican Nation, was not mentioned during its era. All the liberal governments that followed him did the opposite. They tried to exalt him as "the great patriot" (the masons from South América just played along with the charade) and hemicycles and statues of marble were made out of him. Many roads, streets and sub-divisions were named after him, glorifying the worst traitor in Mexican history.
All of this was the cause of the Mexican Revolution.
PRI(a political party)heir of the "liberal" period of Juárez, would continue with its glorification of the traitor Benito Juárez through SEP. Through the 70-year dictatorship of this party, they would put into the heads of the millions of kids the myth of Juárez.
Down to the manufacture of false idols
Down with demagoguery
¡Viva México!
I have lived in Mexico and I live now in Los Angeles but I never heard any Mexican with your point of view. Benito Juarez is considered in Mexico one of the greatest heros of its independence as it is written in all Mexican history books. That said, you have the right to your own opinion. However, this blog has nothing to do with the subject of Juarez or if he was good or bad. Please take your outlandish opinions to some historical blog.
shareYou obviously didn't read the whole thing. Please inform yourself. More and more people with my point of view are coming out.100 years too late but the truth is coming out nonetheless.
Also, I was just explaining to you why Juárez is not a hero.
By the way, you are confusing yourself. Juárez has nothing to do with México's independence(which is full of lies too, but I'm not getting into that right now. If you want to learn about it there are many books that do tell the true but I recommend you "Hidalgo e Iturbide, La Gloria y el olvido"), he was 15 when México gained its independence.
Don't want to sound rude but, stop trying to tell me about my own culture.
You said it: "100 years too late"
Meanwhile I remind you once more that this blog is not about Mr. Juarez but about an excellent Hollywood film named "Vera Cruz"
Meanwhile I remind you that I was just telling you why Juárez is not a hero. I should remind you also that you were the one who started talking about Juárez.
Also, it's not an excellent film if its based on lies.
Now leave. You don't know anything about México or its culture.
The only reason I mentioned "juaristas" is because you asked about the contents of the film. Since this is a blog for movie fans I could never imagine that you were after a political and/or historical argument. Frankly, I couldn't care less what YOU think about Juarez or anybody else. Obviously you have an ax to grind but picked the wrong place to do it.
shareOk, so we agree you don't know anything about México?. Good!. You said that if I really was mexican then I should know Juárez is the acknowledged hero. After that I taught a bit of history lesson.
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Ok, so yeah, I won't be watching a film based on lies. That would be like me saying: "Man, you should watch this movie about Lincoln, in it, it depicts him as a horrible guy who in reality hated black people, its all lies but it's a good film!"
I think we are wasting our time with this silly argument. Anybody who has lived in Mexico or has lived and worked among Mexicans knows that Juarez is considered a national hero who fought against the French emperor Maximilian. That's a historical fact. Everywhere in Mexico there are busts, statues and paintings of Juarez honoring him. They even named a city, Ciudad Juarez, after him. I've never seen a monument honoring Maximilian. You have a different view of history and you have every right to believe whatever you choose but don't come push it down our throats especially on a blog about cinema. THE END
shareSorry, but you are a moron. Take a time and read the last paragraph I wrote a while ago.
The people who really know about the history of México know that Juárez was not a hero and they would be laughing at your face if you dared to say something as stupid as that.
By the way, I live in Ciudad Juárez, so stop trying to tell me about my own culture.
In these times, México is in urgent need of truth. Living in deception has caused, in large part, many of the calamities we suffer. If we do not know the true history of Mexico, we can not know ourselves, nor explain much of what happens to us.
Juárez was the biggest traitor this nation has ever had. Even Juariztas acknowledge the McClane-Ocampo treaty.
Again, STOP TRYING TO TELL ME ABOUT MY OWN CULTURE. You don't know anything about it.
THE END
Pretty interesting Fernando. I am a Yank and don't know much about Mexico, sorry to say. I have read some on Cortez and the 1519 invasion but thats about it.It's too bad relations between us have always been so tense. Anyway, nevermind the other guy, it seems pertinent enough.
shareHello, Norman. Well, Spain and England are total opposites, and those opposites met in the Americas :/
I don't know much about U.S. history either, but what I do know is that the U.S. didn't kill its heroes, and México did. Killing Agustín de Iturdibe and Maximilian I would be like the U.S. killing George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.
The history of México is a very sad one, but we should tell it like it is, tell the truth.
Anyway, have a nice day :)
Killing Agustín de Iturdibe and Maximilian I would be like the U.S. killing George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.
Iturdibe was a hero? Hero of what? He supported Spain during Mexico's struggle for independence, and when it became obvious that Spain wasn't going to hold on to Mexico, like all opportunists, he changed sides. Because he was European and conservative, he was able to have himself declared President but he couldn't wait to declare himself "Emperor Agustin" What a hero.
Mexico is one jacked up country because of an elite who pride themselves on their Spanish purity and who make it their mission in life to make sure the indigenous population remain in poverty. Is it any wonder that people turn to crime to get ahead down there?
I'm Mexican and I'm for Juarez all the way. Maximilian was a Hapsburg interloper put in power by Napoleon III and the Mexican elite who saw their power and money threatened by Juarez and his attempt to rein in the power of the Catholic Church and the 1% population who controlled all of Mexico
And the US has killed plenty of their heroes, John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King for starters.
Viva Juarez, Viva Zapata!
________________________________________
Get me a bromide - and put some gin in it!
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tac%C3%A1mbaro
The army was Belgian. Admittedly there was a French woman, so I guess it was easy to be confused.
This is how I understood it.
Im still to see this very talked-about classic, but Im pretty sure all nationalities involved are portrayed under a bad light. With exception of one american, Mr. Gary "Always-shiny" Cooper.
"It doesn't matter what Bram Stoker has told you... dead people don't come back from their graves"