He named names for the Un American Committee thing. you know, where the US was Calling out people for being commies. Not one of Americas finer moments. And apparently he made this movie as a way to show that ratting on people was okay. That kind of ruins the movie for me. I mean the movie has it moments but I still think about Kazan, lousy snitch. Anyone else feel that way.
shareRobert F Kennedy worked for one of those committees. IN fact Senator Joeseph McCarthy, for whom "McCarthyism" was named was godfather to RFK's first child. FDR authorized the extra-judicial jailing of lots of people with communist ties.
Do you hate them? RFK and FDR seem to still be a heros of the US left.
Many American can be very very shallow in their understanding of the times. I have some interest in Kazan because he came from the same town as my grandparents. (mine Turkish his ancestors Greek).
As a Greek he would have known about Greece, which if the communists had had their way would have spent 50 years after WWII like Albania or Bulgaria.
If you read a biography on Kazan it is clear that he was consistent rather than "blowing with the wind". Most people in Hollywood cooperated with those Committees when it was convenient, and complained about it when convenient.
Do you hate Abe Lincoln because he was a racist? Martin Luther King for cheating on his wife?
Kazan had relatives in a country deeply threatened by communism. You can agree or disagree with his actions in exposing people who were sympathetic to mass murderers like Stalin (and wanted to bring a Stalinist system to the USA), but that does not change the fact that he made among the best films ever made in the USA.
RFK was an *beep* Most Of the Kennedy's were. And while I get what u saying. There is still something appealing about ratting on people and than making a movie telling people it's okay to rat. If Kazan really thought he was doing the right thing he wouldnt have felt it necessary to make a movie justifying his actions. As for Lincoln being racist, u can't judge some body from the 1800s. Like u would judge somebody who lived today. But the stuff with Kazan happened in the 50s. It's a little different.
shareAs a Greek he would have known about Greece, which if the communists had had their way would have spent 50 years after WWII like Albania or Bulgaria.
[deleted]
Lincoln was a racist? The fu** ??
share[deleted]
RFK and JFK would not have hastened the withdrawal of American soldiers in Vietnam. RFK was a politician first - none of the Kennedys were the crusaders of integrity that both the Left and Right remember them as.
Kazan ruined the careers and lives of artists who were much more talented than he was.
MLK's adultery was a personal flaw that had no impact on his activism in civil rights and poverty movements.
You're an idiot to compare Kazan to either of them.
The "Hollywood Ten" were REDS. A couple, like Trumbo were talented writers; but none the less they were seemingly delusioned 'Stalinists'.
“I remained a socialist for several years, even after my rejection of Marxism; and if there could be such a thing as socialism combined with individual liberty, I would be a socialist still. For nothing could be better than living a modest, simple, and free life in an egalitarian society. It took some time before I recognized this as no more than a beautiful dream; that freedom is more important than equality; that the attempt to realize equality endangers freedom; and that, if freedom is lost, there will not even be equality among the unfree.”
― Karl Popper, Unended Quest: An Intellectual Autobiography
Equality is impossible. Fairness is not.
shareHe named names for the Un American Committee thing. you know, where the US was Calling out people for being commies. Not one of Americas finer moments. And apparently he made this movie as a way to show that ratting on people was okay. That kind of ruins the movie for me. I mean the movie has it moments but I still think about Kazan, lousy snitch. Anyone else feel that way.
Well I don't totally blame him for folding to the fascist bullying of the U.S. gov't at the time. I'm sure they had him by the nutsack. However, I prefer to watch the movie without regard for the political overtones. I don't believe there is an "inherent evil" to socialism. I think the U.S. would be a better country with an increase in socialist values. I don't even want to imagine what the wealth disparity is gonna be in 20+ years with the track it is on now. Rich people need to start paying f___ing taxes! Everyone in politics is already bought and paid for by them and has been for a long time. What's going to happen when one person finally "wins" capitalism and has all the money and power and turns this land into the most horrific dictatorship the world has ever seen? I believe in libertarian socialism myself. F___ rich people and their yachts! How many f___ing yachts do they need?? Well at least i'm only poor and not black. Then they'd be making their money by keeping me behind bars! Yay for privatized prisons in the land of the brave and free.
shareCome back and respond again when you have:
A spouse
Two or more children
A mortgage
and a retirement plan.
Then you will be a progressive's vision of a rich person. If you get there you may feel much differently about socialism, wherein a bunch of young kids want you to pay endless taxes so that they can attend college indefinitely before they find themselves and get a job.
The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.
Kazan is a narc, but that doesn't stop him from being one of the greatest directors ever. Same thing goes for Roman Polanski; he was a rapist but he's still one of the greatest artists of all time.
shareThe American Communist Party (ACP) was a criminal organization. It was entirely under the control of the Soviet Comintern. Many people figured this out and quit, some did not.
It was not illegal to be a member of the ACP in 1946, nor at any other time. When someone is called before a committee of the House of Representatives or the Senate, they are required to answer the questions put to them. That is, unless they explicitly invoke the protection of the Fifth Ammendment protection against self incrimination. The witness then must stay silent. They are not allowed to make speeches.
The "Hollywood Ten" created multiple problems for themselves. First, legally, all they needed to do was say, "I invoke my protection under the Fifth Ammendment of the Constitution of the United States," and shut up. But they did not want to shut up. They wanted to denounce the questioning. Next, some of them had already testified in open hearings and denied membership. If they now admitted to membership they were open to charges of perjury. Next, some of them had engaged in "surreptitiously" injecting communist propaganda into their work.
I don't worry too much about commie propaganda. It is easy to recognize and disregard, at least as much so as any other propaganda. As long as it does not detract from the film. The two movies that I have seen that are openly touted as allegories for the Hollywood Blacklist, "High Noon" and "The Crucible," are not easily recognized as such. I never noticed that they were allegorical without reading explanations that they were. Likewise with "On the Waterfront." The biggest difference that I noticed is that the latter was a better movie and deserved to win more awards, as it did.
Keeping your mouth shut to protect people afraid to admit membership in a political party dedicated to the downfall of the United States is not patriotism. Answering honest questions put by a legal authority honestly is not "ratting."
The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.
Just askin, but do you think he would have still been a rat if he named Nazi Party members if the HUAAC were after Nazis?
shareIn the US people can think their Nazis or Commies or whatever other crazy *beep* they want. This is the land of the free. But more than that, it's not just what he did but the making the movie as a way to excuse his actions. That's messed up. We all make mistakes. But than making a movie to excuse the actions and trying to make it seem like the right thing. Like Brando ratted on a bunch of killers so it's okay that i ratted on people for being Commies. That's *beep* up.
i told you not to stop the boat. Now lets go. Apocaylpse Now
Commies murdered 100 million people. Nazis murdered 50 million. If they ain't killers, no one is.
share[deleted]