MovieChat Forums > The Caine Mutiny (1954) Discussion > Fred MacMurray was right.

Fred MacMurray was right.

posted 11 years ago by flapdoodle64
8 replies | jump to latest

I think Queeg was unfit, and his decisions during the typhoon prove it.

Moreover, I think if he and Van Johnson had told the admiral about that flat top that Queeg was unfit, the admiral would have blown them off, maybe even disciplined them himself. At minimum, he would have informed Queeg of their actions and sent them back to face Queeg.

That's the way the military works, and there is a long record of tragedies to support this view.

Maybe MacMurray was a douche, I won't disagree with that, but fundamentally, he was correct about Queeg and correct that if they had gone about 'the right way' the best they could have hoped for was to be transferred off the ship...Queeg himself would have retained his command, and would have led the ship to certain doom in the typhoon, losing most if not all hands.

For nothing, except to honor protocol.

[–] thbryn 11 years ago

would have blown them off
----------------------------------------

True unless MacMurray had some kind of secret handshake from the Academy with Adm.Halsey and that wasn't likey as Kiefer prob' went to Fordham or someplace. He wasn't career Navy which would have made a difference.

Johnson just didn't have the goods and Willie was too inexperienced.

Kisskiss, Bangbang

[–] steely3000 11 years ago

I don't know...I don't know anything about the military, especially in 1944 with a war going on, but I would like to think Halsey would have listened to Van and Fred speak their minds. Van was the senior officer of the Caine and an experienced Navy man, not just some sailor boy. He did have a written record of it all too.

I think Halsey would have looked up Queeg's record and seen that business with the towing of the cut target, and the "yellowstain" business was probably reported as well, and that with the other evidence might have alerted Halsey to relieve Queeg of command. But as I said, it was 1944 and Halsey had more important matters, and may have just not believed Van's story, or simply concluded that there was nothing that wrong in what Queeg did, or may have felt that in 1944 the Navy needed all the experienced commanders they could find, even one as crazy as Queeg.

[–] WyldeGoose 10 years ago

Not necessarily.

Keefer was right, that Queeg was a paranoid. But Greenwald was more right. That it is the duty of officers to support their commander, even if he is a paranoid.

If the officers, especially Maryk, did everything they could do to gain the captain's trust, there probably wouldn't have been a mutiny. Maryk agreed. Queeg effectively ostracized himself from his officers, especially after Kwajelein (and more so after San Francisco in the novel), but it was incumbent of the officers to take Queeg aside, in private, to let him know that the ship will be squared away to his liking and there would be no need for him to do anything beyond giving out general orders.

The officers have a duty to operate the ship first and foremost so the captain doesn't have to. It's his prerogative, of course, but the captain shouldn't have to worry about lapses of discipline among anyone aboard. That's for the XO and every officer aboard. Keefer's own behavior was completely unprofessional as an officer, as was his cowardice when he had the opportunity to plead their case before Halsey. In the novel, Maryk may have won his case and escaped the gallows, but his career in the Navy was over. Keefer himself ends up commanding the Caine, and he demonstrates his own cowardice by ordering an abandon ship after a kamikaze attack, and it's Keith who saves the ship in spite of that order.

The novel is better in that it's about Accountability. A man, especially, has to be accountable for his actions and to the people he associates with. The novel goes to various lengths to explain all this. While Queeg should've been relieved, it was incumbent of the officers to be accountable to that, to be accountable to the captain before-hand to even prevent such an incident to occur. Does that mean they have to defend every action by the captain? No. Somethings are so bad that they have to be addressed, but nobody was willing to step up and say something.

You go through proper channels, even if it means your career as an officer. If the captain is incompetent and unprofessional as an officer, you have to tell someone in charge. The Caine officers didn't do that for all kinds of reasons. If you're not going to make a fuss, then it's your job to support the captain. He's got the job; you don't.

[–] hisgrandmogulhighness 10 years ago

Yes, you're right . .. there's ways of doing things, and there are ways of doing things . . . and I think Keefer did it the wrong way . . . he seemed to have an edge that kept driving him forward to do as he did . . .

[–] hodie 10 years ago

Totally agree with Wyldegoose. It took me a long time to see it that way. If anyone hasn't read the book, it's really good. I was pretty young when I read it and I think I'll read it again now..

[–] snagletooth 9 years ago

You go through proper channels, even if it means your career as an officer.

Presuming your decision was objectively correct, and it still ends your career as an officer, then that system is insane.

If the captain is incompetent and unprofessional as an officer, you have to tell someone in charge. The Caine officers didn't do that for all kinds of reasons. If you're {word deleted} going to make a fuss

Yah, that's called being a trouble-maker in the insane systems.

[–] sage2112 9 years ago

Well first off, MacMurray is an actor - perhaps you mean "Keefer was right" ...

[–] liscarkat (18421) 4 years ago

Yes, Keefer was sort of a douche, but he was right about Queeg. He was also right about aborting the trip to see Halsey. Where he failed was when he wimped out on the witness stand. However, regardless of the fact that neither Keefer nor Maryk were trained psychologists, and whether or not Queeg was actually paranoid, Queeg totally failed during the typhoon. He froze, and was incapable of giving the right orders. Somebody had to take over to save the ship. Maryk did the right thing.