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THE CAINE MUTINY vs. MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY?


which is the greater tale of mutiny?

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Both tales are superb. Each has its strengths. I found The Caine Mutiny marginally superior because it was more psychologically complex. Fletcher Christian and Captain Bligh, in the 1935 film version of Mutiny on the Bounty, were somewhat more broadly drawn (in the novel they are more complex than in the film). Incidentally, while I thought the 1935 version of Mutiny on the Bounty was superb, the 1962 version I found dreadful, thanks to Marlon Brando's wretched portrayal of Fletcher Christian.

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USS Caine. What happened on the very real HMS Bounty was by no means an isolated incident. There were several revolts and mutinies aboard naval vessels in that time period with varying severity and for varying reasons.

You must remember that life on a ship in the 18th and early 19th century was VASTLY different than life on a ship today or in the 20th century. Extemely harsh punishment for fairly minor infractions was not only the norm, it was expected. Several sailors were impressed into naval service against their wills. Life aboard ship was cramped, disease-ridden, and offered very little in the way of comfort or pleasures. Crews mutinied for several of those reasons: too much brutality, not enough food, poor quality food, or no right to leave the ship or the service. By the 20th century, the lash was a thing of the past. So was the Press Gang, rancid weevily food, stale water, scurvy, and the practice of denying the crew ANY liberty for fear of desertion.

By 20th century standards a mutiny aboard a warship would have been unheard of, and would have sent shockwaves throughout the nation. By 18th century standards, it was certainly a major concern, but it was much more a part of life.

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I would have to say Mutiny on the Bounty, since I wouldn't consider what transpires on the USS Caine a Mutiny. Whereas what happened on the HMS Bounty was most certainly a mutiny.

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Mutiny: Mu´ti`ny
n. 1. Insurrection against constituted authority, particularly military or naval authority; concerted revolt against the rules of discipline or the lawful commands of a superior officer; hence, generally, forcible resistance to rightful authority; insubordination.
2. Violent commotion; tumult; strife.

v. i. 1. To rise against, or refuse to obey, lawful authority in military or naval service; to excite, or to be guilty of, mutiny or mutinous conduct; to revolt against one's superior officer, or any rightful authority.
[imp. & p. p. Mutinied ; p. pr. & vb. n. Mutinying .]
2. To fall into strife; to quarrel.

When the bridge crew refused to obey Queeg's commands (foolish as they may have been), and Maryk relieved him of his command, it constituted a mutiny. It does not necessarily need to be an armed rebellion, as HMS Bounty was. Granted, the USS Caine was fictional, while the HMS Bounty was very real.

If the same events that fictionally happened on Caine really transpired today, you had better believe that the men responsible would be sitting at the end of the long green table at a General Court Martial under the charge of mutiny. The U.S. Navy sends guys away for several years for writing bad checks! They would certainly do that or worse to guys who commit one of the worst acts possible at sea.

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[deleted]

Actually, in the book, Maryk isn't tried on a charge of mutiny.

The Judge Advocate feels that it would be too difficult to prove a charge, for the simple reason that Maryk invoked an article in Navy Regulations. (Namely Article 184, which allowed for an unauthorized relief of a captain under certain circumstances). As well, after the relief, Maryk continued to treat Queeg with respect as he was still a ranking officer. That made a mutiny charge hard to stand up. Thus, he was charged with conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline (it's described as a catch-all charge, for cases that fall between cracks of other charges). The stipulation is that he misapplied Article 184 in relieving Queeg as the circumstances did not merit the relief. Thus, Greenwald's line of attack is to prove that Queeg was sufficiently incompetent (if not mentally ill) that Article 184 was legally justified.

The two cases cannot be compared -even allowing that one is fictional. In The Caine Mutiny, an incompetent captain was relieved by his second-in-command, through an obscure passage in the regulation, for the purpose of ensuring the ship's safety. In Mutiny on the Bounty, a harsh -albeit skilled and highly competent- captain is victim of a crew uprising led by the Master's Mate (Fletcher Christian). The ultimate goal was for the crew to escape to an idyllic life in Tahiti.

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Ah. See I didn't get that. They invoke Article 184 and suddenly they're complete bad guys. Obviously you can't just relieve a captain under a specific regulation just because it exists... but while the movie wasn't bad, it made a big deal out of the word mutiny, when I never saw any real mutiny!

No wonder the filmmakers hated the author's advice on the script. The poor guy probably wanted to make changes so it was closer to his book, but Dymytryk (sp?) essentially, from what I gathered, fired him from any co-writing of the script (source: IMDb trivia).

Your post was very helpful in clearing up a few matters for me, thanks for writing all that.




"I used to *curse* this birthmark!! But now, it will lead me to treasure!"

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In the book, Article 185 and 186 are also described. In summary, anyone invoking Article 184 has to be prepared to back up their actions to prove that the unauthorized relief was warranted. It was clear that onus was on the subordinate invoking Article 184 to prove it was necessary.

After the typhoon, the Caine had returned to Ulithi (in the Western Pacific) where Maryk reported what had happened. Queeg was then examined by a doctor who said he was fine. However, the doctor qualified that by adding he wasn't a psychiatrist and recommended Queeg be sent back to the United States for a complete examination. The psychiatrists there said Queeg wasn't crazy. If they had said that he'd suffered some sort of breakdown or was clearly incapacitated, there would have been no court martial.

A Board of Inquiry (described as a one man board, an old captain from the mine force who had never even looked at "Courts and Boards" before being sent to Caine, let alone knowing anything about the law) recommends Maryk be tried for mutiny. Captain Breakstone, the legal officer for the San Francisco area (where the court martial is held) feels that the inquiry was bungled and the recommendation idiotic. He notes -as a lawyer- that there was no question of violence, coercion or even disrespect. That makes proving a mutiny almost impossible, as Maryk made sure to stay on legal grounds.

He instead draws up a charge of "Conduct Prejudicial to Good Order and Discipline" as he feels that Article 184 was misapplied in an unjustified relief, as the doctor's report was that Queeg wasn't insane.

Invoking Article 184 didn't make them automatic bad guys. It was the fact that it appeared they weren't justified in doing so as Queeg wasn't crazy.

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MOTB was a TRUE mutiny. TCM ended up with the captain being relieved because he was actually sick. 'So I'd have to say Mutiny On The Bounty'

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In the novel on which The Caine Mutiny was based, Barney Greenwald said, after the verdict, that Captain Queeg really wasn't insane. Rather, the court had been tricked into thinking Queeg was insane by Greenwald's unfair questioning of Queeg and one of the psychiatrists.

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It's worth noting that The Caine Mutiny doesn't have a single scantily-clad Polynesian babe. I enjoy studying other cultures.

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The Bounty actually occurred (Bligh actually had several insurrections on several of his postings), and the Pitcairn Island survivors descendants remain, plus Bligh's unequalled open ocean open boat navigation feat.

The Caine Mutiny is fiction.

As far as movies go, the Bounty with Hopkins and Gibson is arguably the better movie overall from an action perspective. The Caine Mutiny is good as a drama, but not really comparable.



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I agree with you about The Bounty being the best of all the movies. What Bligh accomplished getting his men to the Dutch East Indies and safety was one amazing feat. I read the Bounty trilogy years ago and Men Against the Sea which chronicles their story on that voyage was in my opinion the best of the three books.

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It's interesting to compare Bligh and Christian's command abilities.

Bligh took the launch to Timor -almost 4000 miles in about seven week- with the loss of only a single man to hostile natives when they stopped to attempt to refill water casks.

Christian's band of followers fell apart soon after. Some of them opted to stay in Tahiti (where the non-mutineers left aboard the ship were left behind to await a ship to take them back to England), rather than stay with him. The colony on Pitcairn Island nearly self-destructed within a few years of their arrival.

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