MovieChat Forums > Tôkyô monogatari (1972) Discussion > Defending Koichi and Shige

Defending Koichi and Shige

posted 16 years ago by lukechong
16 replies | jump to latest

I think I find so many bad remarks on Koichi and Shige that I need to speak up for them.

I keep hearing the terms "nasty", "inconsiderate", "terrible", "heartless" etc. But no they are not.

The good thing about the movie is that it avoids easy categorisation on the children as "big, bad, heartless" creatures, which they are not.

Take Koichi for instance. During their conversations he stresses his parents must have a good time in Tokyo--the only thing he doesn't have is time for them. They were supposed to have an outing, but because of his work (a patient not turning out well), he has to postpone them.

I suppose looking at another angle, it just shows his responsibility--at the expense of his parents.

And Shige, whose brash nature makes her a little misunderstood. Yes, she's a little impatient, but she too have her parents' genuine interest at heart (telling off her father for drinking etc., wanting them to enjoy themselves) Yes, she's pretty outspoken but not in any way that is particularly inconsiderate or grating (at least to me).

Or Keizo who needs to make a living at Osaka.

The problem Ozu highlights I think is that the choice of staying in bustling Tokyo means you will inevitably never have enough time for your parents--unless they know how to take care of themselves. A bit like giving money to your kids and expecting them to take care of themselves.

Life in sea-side Onomichi is never going to be like that in Tokyo. Which is what Ozu is saying.

It's pretty sad, but "isn't life disappointing" (a question I don't agree with) Ozu's answer is "yes, it is."

Note that Ozu, as a person, stayed unmarried with his mother until her death. These questions must have cut him in the heart.

[–] Zoltangoth 16 years ago

Really?

Was Shige not inconsiderate when telling her client that her parents were just "friends from the country"? When saying "expensive cakes" were too good for her parents, when crackers are good enough for them? When she reminded her mother how fat she looked, and how it shamed her to tell her friends she was her daughter?

Brash is one thing. Shige wanted them to enjoy themselves only inasmuch as they were out of her way. When they came back early, she whined about how they should have stayed away longer.

If she had their best interests at heart, then why continually scold her husband for spending money on her parents?

I fail to see her redeeming qualities.

[–] infernal2046 16 years ago

I'd have to agree with Zoltangoth with Shige.

[–] infernal2046 16 years ago

I'd have to agree with Zoltangoth with Shige. Also while tending to her clients. When asked who they were she referred to them as "friends from the country".

[–] omari322 16 years ago

I have more of a bone to pick with Shige's behavior than Koichi's. Mother and Father know their son is a doctor on-call so his free time is at a premium. If anything Koichi should be taken to task for the behavior of his two children towards their grandparents especially the oldest boy. Koichi was far from warm and attentive to his parents but I think he was very much concerned about their welfare.

Shige however is a horse of a different color to me. The things she said to and about her parents especially Mother were heartless, cruel, and inconsiderate. A supposedly caring, adult child does not deny his/her parents or say it would be better if one parent died before the other. I understand she had her own business and life in Tokyo but her attitude towards her aged parents was clearly out of bounds. Maybe she had her reasons for the way she acted because of some past family history but from the slice of life we saw of the clan it was uncalled for.

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[–] excel99 16 years ago

Shige is a bit callous, no doubt. Ozu expects us to see that. But on the other hand, consider that when she was young her father was something of an alcoholic, and then he shows up drunk in the middle of the night with some stranger who could be anyone. Shige is pissed, which is understandable (and very realistic; let's face it, even as adults children always harbor some resentment toward their parents). Yet she still performs her 'duty,' by sending her husband upstairs and taking care of her drunk father and this 'stranger.' She is not pleasant about it, but she DOES IT.

Likewise, she doesn't really want to go to her parent's hometown when her mother is sick, but she does go. This is REALLY important in Japanese society, the idea of being at your parent's bedside when they die. It can't be overstated how bad the son was who didn't make it on time.

Shige is not a bad person, she just isn't very pleasant.

[–] Senator_Corleone 16 years ago

I think the people that harshly judge the two oldest children haven't lived enough to understand how you're supposed to see the situation from every perspective. Were they a bit callous and selfish? Yes. But we all take our parents for granted. That's the point. Until they die. Koichi and Shige's parents understand this. "They're certainly better than average." They're not the best children, but I think it's totally understandable why. They are far, far from the worst.

Ozu doesn't want you to see them as monsters and would be displeased with that reading of the film.

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[–] lukechong 16 years ago

We should remember the conversation between Kyoko and Noriko, where Noriko clearly defends them.

[–] Tashtago 14 years ago

Shige was pretty horrible but I think she was just self centered not vindictive. She seems to be hard headed and practical. When the mother takes sick, she suggests to her brother they bring mourning clothes . THis seems cold at first but also shows respect. If/when her mother dies, she and her brother will be dressed properly. Koichi was busy with his practice and too over whelmed to think about anything else. As i said to my wife if my parents lived far away and then showed up for a weeks stay . I'd be uncertain what to do with them too.

[–] kerpan 14 years ago

Oau intended Shige to be "comic relief" -- he didn't consider her awful -- just a bit too concerned with money and practicality.

BTW -- My sense is that the elderly parents only gave their kids a week's advance notice (if that).

MEK

Analyze only when necessary.
fortune cookie, 4-24-2010

[–] enlil01 14 years ago

I don't think they were monsters, but like someone already said here everyone take their parents for granted and another thing, they lived really far away for some time now (in the 50s they couldnt call easily by the phone nor chat through the internet =P).

But the older daughter was the worst in my opinion, i was really sad when she said she couldnt take her parents for the night and they had to stay out in a unknown city.

Don't dream it: be it!

[–] ibbi 13 years ago

I think the movie gives them a fairly decent shake early on, and Noriko speaks up for them at the end as well.

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[–] kerpan 13 years ago

One of the most clear-eyed, yet kind-hearted films ever. ;~}

MEK

Analyze only when necessary.
fortune cookie, 4-24-2010

[–] monkey714 12 years ago

Shige is close to a Commedia dell'Arte character. She is very conscious of appearance (she is, after all, a hairdresser). Comments like "just friends from the country" take her over the top.

I don't know anything about Japanese cinema, but I wonder if there wasn't a style to have these comic characters (maybe Mifune in 7 Samurai is another), whereas in Western cinema the director might worry more about breaking the flow of the story (although, obviously, there are comic characters in western cinema too).

[–] kerpan 12 years ago

Think of all the comic relief slipped into generally serious John Ford westerns....

Ozu definitely saw Shige as being a figure to add some comic relief.

MEK

Analyze only when necessary.
fortune cookie, 4-24-2010

[–] gothic_a666 11 years ago

About Shige, I found her conduct for the most part appalling but there are details that show that she really does care for at least her mother. When the mother dies Shige breaks down crying. A while later she is ready to ask for her recently deceased mother's belongings but she did feel sorry for her.

[–] PoppyTransfusion 9 years ago

A while later she is ready to ask for her recently deceased mother's belongings but she did feel sorry for her.

When a loved one, like a parent, dies wanting a treasured belonging is a natural response to dealing with the loss. Shige's insensitivity was one of manners; she should have waited before making her claim. The family are shown as highly mannered, which is typical of Japan society, but they lack spontaneity of feeling. Spontaneity in the film is seen in Shige, the grandchildren, the drunk men and the grief that leaks from Noriko. Lack of spontaneity is an issue when grieving as are ill manners but the former does not seem to be considered and judged in the same way.

A bird sings and the mountain's silence deepens.