SPOILER
I didn't feel bad in the end because they were walking to death unafraid. They were going to a better place. That is the whole point of the ending. In my review I call it a happy ending. I guess you can call it that if you see it the way I see it.
My late father had a theory about the cloudy background behind them. He said that it might be Heaven: in another words, instead of showing them being killed, it shows them already in Heaven. I agree.
shareAlfred Newman's glorious Hallelujah tells us imphatically that this is a very happy ending. It's been said (about Newman) that it takes a Jew to write the music that glorifies Jesus best.
Dale
Alfred Newman's glorious Hallelujah tells us imphatically that this is a very happy ending. It's been said (about Newman) that it takes a Jew to write the music that glorifies Jesus best.
Please note that Alfred Newman "stole" some of the music in "The Robe" from the work he composed for "Song of Bernadette". He was amazing. He also did "A Man Called Peter".And yes, a Jew also wrote Easter Parade, White Christmas, and many other Christmas and holiday classics. Barbra Streisands' Christmas Album was a best-seller. Musical talent knows no bounds. It is amusing that director Norman Jewisson, who did "Fiddler On The Roof", is not a Jew!
shareThe hallelujah at the end is similar to the one at the end of the song of bernadette, aloso scored by Alfred Newman
shareYou will, also, hear elements of this score (previously composed in part) in "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" (1939), "The Greatest Story Ever Told" (1965) and repeated, with screen credit provided, in "Demetrius and the Gladiators" (1954). All composed by the very able Maestro Newman.
sharecwente2 Are you sure that the "Hallelujah" we are talking about was ever used in The Greatest Story Ever Told? Newman had composed an entirely new "Hallelujah" to accompany the raising of Lazarus scene, repeating the theme for the finale, both of which can be heard on the CD. George Stevens asked Newman to replace his "Hallelujah" with Handel's famous chorus from The Messiah, which he reluctantly did. So unless it appeared elsewhere in the film as released, the older "Hallelujah" wasn't used, and appears in three films: Hunchback, Bernadette and The Robe, in slightly revised forms. That's if I am correct - and I'm not at all sure I am.
EDIT: I've just realised that I totally misread your post. You didn't in fact say that the "Hallelujah" was in Greatest Story, only that portions the The Robe score appeared there, which is of course entirely correct. This reuse of the older material was also at the insistence of Stevens, who preferred the older music based on quite different themse. Newman tried to have his name removed from the credits of Greatest Story because of the way the score was hacked around and compromised.
By the way, the notes for the CD of Hunchback suggest that the "Hallelujah" is "rumored to have been actually composed by Ernst Toch" which comes as a real surprise to me. But to be honest, given Newman's repeated use of the composition, I find it very hard to believe. A site with a checklist of Toch's scores (http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/music/mlsc/toch/opus.htm) certainly doesn't mention it, and as Toch seems to have been under contract to Paramount at this time I don't see that he would have become involved in an RKO production. Of course, even if it is the case that he wrote it, Toch was himself Jewish, so I guess alxnrth's comment that "it takes a Jew to write the music that glorifies Jesus best" would remain unchallenged, no?
As another aside, Newman reused part of the Hunchback score for Prince of Foxes; The "Festival" cue of the former became the "Festival of Spring" cue of the latter.
Cheers
Call me Ishmael...
As usual, austendw, you are correct - including the "edit". I was unaware that part of "Hunchback" was used in "Prince of Foxes". I'll listen for it next time I see the latter. I really liked that picture, by the way. I understand it was filmed in B&W because, at the time, Zanuck was miffed at Ty Power. Don't know if true, however. And, yes, Alex North may have been right! Would love to have heard what E. Bernstein would have come up with for a Gospel oriented picture.
shareIt's actually a bit of a surprise to realise that Bernstein only scored a single "ancient epic" - The Ten Commandments, of course. That score seems so definitive of Biblical "weightiness" that one imagines he was a frequent composer of that sort of thing - a bit like Rozsa, who really did corner the market, along with Newman, I suppose.
Would love to have heard what E. Bernstein would have come up with for a Gospel oriented picture.I've just looked on Bernstein's IMDb listing and, lo and behold, I see that he did at least write the music for a documentary called The Crucifixion of Jesus in 1973. Not an epic perhaps but certainly the right period! Now, if there were only some way of getting hold of that soundtrack ...
All very interesting, however, how do you feel at the end of the film?
That is the question.
D, I know you love the Newman's score for this film (if my memory serves me correctly??) Do you have any favorite moments that stand out, in your view? I wonder what others think about this as well.
"WE ARE THE PRESIDENT!" First Lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton
I can't remember how I feel at the end of the movie. Slightly let down, I think. I find the transition from the drama and gloom to the very upbeat Hallelujah with heavenly clouds far too abrupt. I think that someone somewhere insisted on that upbeat musical coda, and I think it's misjudged. It certainly doesn't convince me or carry me along.
Nevertheless I am indeed fond of the score. The romantic theme that's heard for the first time (?) when Gallio is saying goodbye to Diana at the dock is a real beauty, and the noble "clarion" theme for Peter is also very effective indeed.
Call me Ishmael...
I think that someone somewhere insisted on that upbeat musical coda, and I think it's misjudged. It certainly doesn't convince me or carry me along.
Nevertheless I am indeed fond of the score. The romantic theme that's heard for the first time (?) when Gallio is saying goodbye to Diana at the dock is a real beauty, and the noble "clarion" theme for Peter is also very effective indeed.
However, as I view it, it reinforces the view that Marcellus and Diana will indeed meet their King. ... Once he is sentenced, her faith is fortified and she, too, is willing to die 'rather than live another hour in an Empire ruled by you,' as she tells Caligula. I am not taking a position here about Christianity, but I think the final scene and the ending follow a seamless thread.Don't get me wrong. I agree that thematically this ending is entirely justifiable, and well prepared. It's just that, for me, the way it was dramatised didn't work. I initially thought it was simply the music: the sudden transition from the dark doom-laden underscoring as they are condemned to death to the bright choral coda, but now I'm not sure that's it. It's the music plus the image of the background changing to heavenly clouds. That's the problem for me, I think. If the film had ended with Marcellus & Diana being condemned and going off to their fate - no heavenly clouds, just the two of them leaving the throne room - and we had still heard the Hallelujah on the sound-track, then I think there might have been something more dramatically effective for me. Viewed objectively (the image), they are going to their bloody death; but from their subjective point of view (the soundtrack), they are effectively being united in marriage and going to their salvation. The tension between image and music, objective/physical and internal/spiritual might have given the final moments a real frisson. But as it plays, it feels to me like dramatic shorthand and, more importantly, spiritual sleight-of-hand. One minute they're off to the lions and the next second they've arrived in heaven already, with all the nasty bits conveniently ellided.
So glad you continued on your roll (or, rant if you prefer). I always felt Koster's direction of "The Robe" some of his best work -- until that final scene.
The clouds are much too cliche'. And, as you know, "point of view" is the thing. Wrong there, as you point out. Shouldn't we hear Dianna say "For the big fisherman.", hand the robe off, then go back to Caligula's POV (not Caligula, but his POV) and watch them exit up the stairs with some praetorians turning and moving to follow them out at a respectful distance? Fade up to the brighter light of the out-of-doors, then . . . slow fade out to "The End". The music is sufficient. I agree, too, a little more preparation for Dianna's conversion would have made it all more believable/inspirational.
'D', I love it when you're on a roll (or rant if you prefer), as long as you don't elevate your BP. Of course, you make an excellent observation. My response to Koster's placement of the camera at that angle - 'Cinemascope,' perhaps ?? That's to say, how it might dazzle audiences in a dark theater?? Nah, too obvious. But are they really coming toward us, however? We are the fourth wall and I'm not as bothered by it as you are, D. Truth be told, I haven't seen the film in quite some time, so you've given me something to consider! However, ending the film with the "Hallelujah" as the couple exit the Imperial Palace would have been very effective as well. Either way, that last scene is stunning and it, indeed, the entire film, stays with me for several days -- I can't say that for very many films, especially in this genre, not one of my favorites, by the way.
I agree, too, a little more preparation for Dianna's conversion would have made it all more believable/inspirational.
gaelicguy,
Pls. don't misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting that Dianna's conversion needed more preparation for her to have made it, but, rather, a little more exposition re how she got there would have helped the audience (this audience, at least) to accept her willingness to die as suddenly as it presents itself in Caligula's court. Might have reinforced the film's spiritual message as well. It took Marcellus years of conflict and agony of experience (virtually the whole film) to get where he got. Dianna, it seemed, needed just her desire to be with (love for) Marcellus. . . Anyway, it seemed to me too abrupt dramatically and insufficiently "spiritual", given the film's theme.
In his "Decline and Fall . . .", Gibbon explains how many early Christians were actually anxious to throw themselves into the fire, so to speak, while the Bishops sought to discourage them (there were so many). But . . . that was after much indoctrination, time, an understanding of Christian immortality, and so forth. A short but potent scene, or two, (perhaps with Peter) might have given me the "extra" transition/motivation I needed to "believe", more completely, Dianna's willingness to die on the spot. But . . . it's been a long time since I've seen the film, too, so it may be there and I just don't remember it.
Cwente2, I think you've made yourself very clear and I am, by no means, criticizing or disagreeing with you. Of course, she is with Demetrius when Peter comes to heal and succeeds and she is bewildered and in awe, but that's not enough for her. She was gently admonished by Tiberius for 'being wise as a child,' but now, as a woman, she reasons, 'foolishly,' to which she has a marvelous response, prompting him to comment, "What a wife you'd make for an Emperor." My point is that she is an intelligent woman and needs to be really convinced. And while her conversion does seem abrupt, I have always thought that there is a nice symmetry to it or, more to the point, her relationship to Marcellus.
After all, when she encounters Marcellus initially, the first time she sees him since she was a girl, she relates the anecdote about her cutting herself and crying and his coming upon her, taking a dagger and cutting his hand, to show her that it didn't hurt as much as she thought. By the end of the film, she's profoundly impressed, yet again, by Marcellus' brave and noble steadfastness to this new found faith and she is now ready to share in it, whatever the consequences. Not the 'stuff' of which conversions are made, perhaps, I never doubt her for a minute, especially after she lays the insane Caligula out in his Imperial lavender.
I did like, very much, your comment about the shift of POV when she hands the robe to be dispatched to "The Big Fisherman." Excellent point.
I would suspect we need to see this film again come Eastertide!
"WE ARE THE PRESIDENT!" First Lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton
Thanks, and nicely said. My opinion is based simply on a personal sense of "the drama". But, it's a kind of nit-picking really. I love the film. Always have. There's a sincerity and innocence to it which bespeaks the period in which it was made (and in which the novel was written, however earlier). I first saw it, with my dad, after a recommendation from a Sunday school teacher. We had Sunday school then.
Also, it appeals to the romantic in me. The beautiful scenes between Marcellus & Dianna on the docks, her defense of him before Tiberias, and, yes, the scene which I've been criticising a bit (all with the help of an exhilarating and emotional score). A love so strong she is willing to give her life for its continuing. . . Of all the nicely produced 50's Biblicals, this one is the one LEAST likely to be re-made -- for the above reasons. What a shame. How jarring and jaded we've become. For some, perhaps, it's sentimental. But, if it is, it's "honest" sentimentality. We could use a little more of that today, I think.
Oh, they'd remake it. Sadly. Today, it would be hacked about and ruined, which is why the classics should NEVER be remade!!!!!!
shareChoral director & long time collabortor with Newman, Ken Darby wrote a very interesting book "Hollywood Holyland" describing director George Stevens' constant interfering with Newman's music for Greastest Story ever Told: insisting on using the Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah, plus re-using some of Newman's music from The Robe.
Darby also put together a cantata, "Man of Galilee"based on Alfred Newman's music from The Robe & Greatest Story ever Told available on Silva Screen RecordsFILMXCD 352 "the essential Alfred Newman Film Music Collection.
Dale
That's very interesting, Dale. I am always on the lookout for books about 'behind the scenes' Hollywood.
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.
Darby also put together a cantata, "Man of Galilee"based on Alfred Newman's music from The Robe & Greatest Story ever ToldWhich, when you think about it, was rather ironic, considering that the enforced amalgamation of the thematically quite distinct scores had been the cause of so much distress to Newman in the first place, no?
Well, you've all made me want to do an archealogical excavation among my dusty old VHS tapes and watch this movie again. I saw it for the first time as an 8-year-old Catholic school kid who had just learned about the early Christian martyrs. It made me cry then and anytime I heard the music.My mother had the soundtrack and the novel, which I also read. The movie put flesh and bones on the subject I had just learned; it made the martrys real people. I love this movie, and I loved the ending, with Diana and Marcellus walking steadfastly toward their fate. The Hallelluia and the clouds into which they walked just reinforced that they were no longer of this world, and it could be interpreted as the vision on which they fixed their minds to better endure the suffering to come.
Wonderful discussion, by the way.
This is one of those films that always makes me tear up at the end--I find it moving, even with its 1950s style cinematic choices. I think of the end as a happy ending, even if they are going off to be executed. Indeed, as others have noted, the whole throne room sequence at the end is one of my favorites in the film, especially when Diana tells Caligua what she thinks of him.
I just watched it again last night (for Easter week, of course), and it still had the same impact it did when I first saw it approximately 40 years ago.
"Never trust a bunny"
Jean Simmons was consistently great in this movie. In the trial scene, at the end of the movie, she tells Caligula exactly what she thinks of him and his empire. She says it with convincing authority and pulls no punches. A very satisfying ending.
LionHearted
I did feel bad at the end, at first. But I try to look at the bright side of things, and I thought: "Well, at least the archers will get in some practice." I hope they didn't tie Marcellus and Diana to posts like Saint Sebastian, but let them run for it in the archer's field so that the archers could get in some practice hitting moving targets.
shareI didn't feel bad... my thouhts actually were they got what they deserved. also that hallelujah music was laughable, really.
story-wise, they didn't die for no-one, not even really for their ideology. All Marcellus did was provoke the emperor and that not even in a practical approach.
Only thing that was worse than the end was that god-damn harp-lady with her face-long smile, I couldn't stand her.
Now, let me get this straight: What Marcellus had to say to the emperor (a madman who thought he was a god) wasn't as important as the fact that he didn't take "a practical approach" in saying it? Thus, he deserved to die, and his death meant nothing to "no one". . . Right?
shareI'm glad someone brought this up because, i have to admit, i was having mixed emotions at the ending. Sure i get it, glorious clouds and meeting god and all, but it also felt a bit strange, like----Ok here we go off to death---tra-la-la-la-la....Halelujah etc. I get it, and i'm glad she had a conversion at the end, but yeah it was a bit weird to have them so smiling and almost skippy toward their death. Then again, to leave that ugly Caligula-ruled world behind would've seemed merciful.
shareOk here we go off to death---tra-la-la-la-la....Halelujah etc ..... it was a bit weird to have them so smiling and almost skippy toward their death.