MovieChat Forums > The Band Wagon (1953) Discussion > The Band Wagon v Singing in the Rain

The Band Wagon v Singing in the Rain

posted 16 years ago by jamdonahoo
35 replies | jump to latest

Certainly two of the top musicals of all time as only MGM could do them. Which is better?

Dancing stars: Kelly or Astaire? I give this a draw, athletic style of Kelly or the grace of Astaire. Both had average voices. Gene was better looking.

Lady Dancers: Cyd v Debbie. Again stylistic differences. Cyd had a more balletic style while Debbie was more the hoofer style, full of energy. Cyd's legs and angelic face gives her a slight edge. Of course Cyd was in SITR too so again a draw.

Supporting Cast: Jack Buchanan and Nannette Fabray are great but so is Donald O'Connor. This one is a tie also.

Plot: Both light and frothy but the Bandwagon plot was straight out of an Andy Hardy movie. Gee, kids let's get together and do a bang up show. Actually parodied by Astaire at the party.

So far pretty even but the tiebreaker has to be the performance of Jean Hagen as Lina. IMO the best comedic actress job ever done.

A narrow win for SITR.

[–] gbennett5 16 years ago

"Both had average voices; Kelly was better looking." This isn't a
BEAUTY contest, for heaven's sake. They are great, great classic films
and one can't compare art. In any case, voices aside, Astaire is
considered by many (myself included) to be one the greatest interpreters
of the American song book. In short, he was a GREAT singer. Great
instrument? No. But there is more to singing than the voice.

I prefer "Bandwagon" and I prefer "Astaire", but BOTH films are
masterpieces.

[–] logicalskeptic 13 years ago

gbennett5 your point is well taken. There was no one more wanted by composers to introduce their songs than Fred Astaire.

Only two things are actually knowable:
It is now and you are here. All else is merely a belief.

[–] silly_putty 16 years ago

dancing stars: i love fred astaire. in an astaire v. kelly competition, astaire always wins for me. but the dances in singing in the rain are far more entertaining and appealing. also, kelly had a great dance partner in o'connor so he was obviously able to push his sequences further.

lady dancers: CYD CHARISSE by far! i feel that debbie doesn't have a ton of charisma, her dancing is lacking (understandable since she wasn't a dancer), her singing isn't great, and she's not cute. but charisse is absolutely great and i wish that her star had been more appreciated in her prime.

supporting cast: jack buchanan was great in the band wagon and nannette fabray is gorgeous in this movie. but donald o'connor was spectacular and jean hagen is wonderful. i guess a tie.

plot: singing in the rain. it's beautiful. again, i think the band wagon works primarily because of jack buchanan. he gave a really fine performance.

i say a pretty solid win for singing in the rain. which is really unfortunate because on a single level basis, i would always prefer charisse and astaire to kelly and reynolds. but singing in the rain has great dancing and charisse has a part in it.

[–] gbennett5 16 years ago

But "Wagon" is a far more sophisticated musical. It's also a far
deeper one, with a far greater range of musical numbers that run the
gamut of Astaire's melancholy "By Myself" to the jazzy, stylish "Shine
on Your Shoes" to the delightful "Louisiana Hayride." And the finale
looks like it was shot yesterday. I just find Astaire the more moving
perfomer and Kelly and Donen combined are not Minnelli.

On your side of the argument, I think Reynolds was a far more charimatic
performer than Charisse, who was also a dreadful actress (one of the
few painful realities of "Wagon"). I think Reynolds WAS cute, a decent
dancer, and she could act.

[–] freakyfelix 15 years ago

It's a split decision.

SITR is great for Gene Kelly and Cyd Charisse.
TBW is great for Astaire and Cyd Charisse.
Her numbers make both films tops. Reynolds was okay, but not "amazing".

[–] Doghouse-6 15 years ago

I'm sure RAIN is loved better my more people; I'm also sure it's the better known of the two. I've heard BAND described as "everyone's other favorite MGM musical," which sounds apt.

BAND may be the best all-around musical that Fred made, but - great as he is - I don't think it's the best showcase for him, personally. RAIN, on the other hand, was showcase material for all concerned. BAND is more sophisticated than RAIN, which I think audiences generally find more accessible. And where BAND has a weak spot or two, RAIN doesn't have any. I do love 'em both, and never tire of either.

Any comparison between Reynolds and Charisse is strictly apples and oranges. I would give "amazing" credit to Reynolds, though, simply for the job she did with no prior formal dance training. Stuff that may look simple - like that little sideways-sliding step she, O'Connor and Kelly do down the stairs in the "Good Morning" number, are extremely difficult (stand at the top of a flight of stairs, look down them and try to even imagine doing it, especially without looking at your feet), and she matches O'Connor and Kelly - both top-flight tap dancers - step for step throughout.

Two things Reynolds has always had going for her is that she's game to try anything, and has always been an incredibly hard worker. 30-odd years ago, I was visiting a friend who was in a production of "Annie Get Your Gun" (directed by Gower Champion) that Reynolds was touring in. During a rehearsal break, the stage was littered with 20-something chorus boys and girls lying around, moaning about their fatigue. Reynolds strolled through and remarked (loudly enough for all to hear), "I don't understand how all these kids can be so tired." She wasn't being mean; just making a point from the perspective of someone who learned how to rehearse from Kelly, one of the toughest taskmasters of all.

The word "trouper" wasn't coined for her, but there's no one who better embodies it.

Poe! You are...avenged!

[–] comicstu 15 years ago

i pretty much feel that Minnelli is a far more apt director when it comes to utilizing Technicolor and filling the frame. in Singin' in the Rain, the emphasis is almost strictly on dance numbers and mise-en-scene tends to take a back seat (obviously the big show-stopping number and the titular piece are exceptions). i think that the immeasurable joy and iconography of the Singin' in the Rain number, as well as Kelly's, O'Connor's, and Reynold's combined charms make it a more canonical and accessible work for people (and note i love it to death), but The Band Wagon is so much more explosive and packs most ofl its numbers with several extras, fun genre riffs, and background details. all of these aspects make it so much more fun without downplaying the main players. and i agree that it is the more sophisticated film as well.

[–] Doghouse-6 15 years ago

Indeed. Cinematically, BAND is the more compelling of the two. RAIN is more "standard MGM factory", stylistically. I imagine that's due in no small part to the co-direction aspects as well as the sensibilities of both Donen and Kelly being somewhat less artistic than Minnelli.

Poe! You are...avenged!

[–] 4friedchickensandacoke 15 years ago

Whenever I hear the music of Singin' In The Rain. I can't help but to picture Alex raping that poor woman.... I often wonder what Gene Kelly was thinking when he sold that music to Kubrick.

[–] onepotato2 15 years ago

Singin in the Rain is still relevant. There's something to take away from it.
Band Wagon is just nine hours of scattershot, butt-numbing 'entertainment.'

It never lights on any single guiding idea. It just feeds new genres and cliches (hay-rides, babies, gangsters, devils, etc.) through the machinery for two hours.

[–] gbennett5 15 years ago

You are two potatoes short. "The Band Wagon" is easily one of the greatest
musicals ever produced and rivals "Singin' in the Rain" on every level.
It's more sophisticated on many levels, and the range of musical numbers
is astonishing. And no two numbers are alike. The use of color,
Michael Kidd's staging and Astaire himself are just a few of the highlights.
There's also director Vincentel Minnelli at his peak. If you need it
explained to you, you're probably someone who thinks "Grease" is the
finest musical ever made.

Please. I have no issue with people who prefer "Rain" - it's a joyously
produced musical. But if you can't recognize the greatness of (argubaly)
Astaire's greatest performance and film, then you shouldn't even be
posting. Truly.

[–] O'Malley 15 years ago

No contest. The Band Wagon is the greatest musical of them all, for no other musical has such depths of feeling. It's also one musical where the romantic relationship seems earned through the tentative explorations of emotions between two people rather than just as an easy out for the script writers (and "Dancing In The Dark" is the most erotic dance number ever).

The Band Wagon also deals acutely with Vincente Minnelli's favorite theme -- the nature of artistic temperament. The characters here are as prickly and insecure as they are talented, but through it all they share a love of the arts. Plus, the film is hilarious -- Cordova's Faust musical is wonderfully clever and funny. (And Jack Buchanan is brilliant.)

Singin' In The Rain is a fun diversion, but it's sit-commy and shallow and glib in comparison to The Band Wagon.

[–] don-lockwood 14 years ago

Jesus Christ, Singin' in the Rain wins, and it's not even close. The Band Wagon has one memorable, canonical song and one or two great dance numbers, but that's about it. The stars have little chemistry when not dancing, the story and plot are nonexistent, and the characters are one-note. The dialogue is snappy, but nothing like SITR.

Without a compelling story or very enjoyable soundtrack, TBW is dull and draggy in stretches, like most of MGM's dated vaudeville musicals from that era. SITR, Cover Girl, On the Town, and An American in Paris are all far superior.

[–] gbennett5 13 years ago

Good grief - given your screen name, you really didn't NEED to post, did
you? And you can't even pick "Rain" - which we've all admitted is a
great, great film -without attacking the equally fine "Band wagon."

One of my reasons for picking "Wagon" is that it not only is far more
sophisticated and subtle (the director in "Rain" plays like a cartoon
character, shouting every line; mugging at every moment), its numbers
range from touching to fun (there is nothing touching in "Rain" to even
compare to Astaire's simple, yet deeply moving "By Myself"). Also the
numbers are placed far more naturally. As much as I love "Broadway
Melody" it comes in at an awkward moment, completely shutting down the
movie, then there's 20 more minutes before the movie ends. It's too
much of a "finale" to have that much story afterwards.

But both films are great. I own them both and couldn't imagine not
watching each several times a year. But if I could only take one
to that desert Island..."The Band Wagon" would win (But OH, how'd
I'd miss Jean Hagen!!).

Lastly, while you're entitled to your opionion, you're probably the
only musical fan who would place "Cover Girl" (!) ahead of "The
Band Wagon." And "An American in Paris" is extremely overrated.
Talk about long, dull stretches. Only its finale is remarkable.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] gbennett5 13 years ago

But "Band Wagon" is touching; "Rain" is not. But then again, Astaire
was a far more moving performer than Kelly. But, yes, both films are
great - a stunning ode to both of these legendary performers. And
Hagen is just marvelous (she should've won the Oscar over Gloria
Graham. But it's equally ridiculous that "The Greatest Show on Earth"
won Best Picture when "Rain" wasn't even nominated).

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] TheAtticMan 11 years ago

Singin' in the Rain might be my favorite movie of all time, even considering how much of a film snob I get when it comes to gushing about Kubrick, Fellini, and the rest of the lot.

I saw from my first watching that The Band Wagon has much more depth than is apparent on the surface. The scene where Cordova is discussing cutting out the "fun, Make 'Em Laugh" mentality of the Marton's script to be more artistically poignant featured actor Jack Buchanan staged in front of a red, cavernous like background reminiscent of Hell, likening himself to the Devil in the spiel he himself is delivering. There's a lot going on artistically, and the "Dancing in the Dark" bit has a lot more artistic integrity than anything that Singin' in the Rain has to offer.

But in terms of deliver, cohesion, and overall chemistry? I have to go with Singin' in the Rain. Between Reynolds, Kelly, and O'Connor, the movie just comes together and seems tighter overall. The fact that the driving theme of the movie was "Make 'em Laugh" allows for it to get away with not being terribly artistically deep, though I certainly think that the montage to "Would You" features some of the finest shots ever committed to film (oddly enough the shot that caps it all is of a sound stage and the grips and electricians that make it happen), and the build up to "You Were Meant for Me" is something that anybody with a love for cinema has always wanted to do with a potential romantic partner.

Plus, according to legend, Fred Astaire taught Debbie Reynolds how to dance after an ill-fated first day of rehearsals. If that's true, than Astaire's talent was infused in "Singin' in the Rain" as well!

Both are great films though, and it's a crying shame that they don't make 'em like that anymore.

--

www.ThornesAttic.com

[–] ABetterDay 11 years ago

Both are enjoyable but Wagon is certainly the better, overall film.

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