MovieChat Forums > Kansas City Confidential (1952) Discussion > How did the three robbers know the lead ...

How did the three robbers know the lead man wouldn't simply disappear?


Either this is a plot hole or I was being inattentive. The way the Preston Foster character set things up, the other three had no way of preventing him from simply disappearing. If he tricked them, and simply never showed up in Mexico, what could they do about it? They had no idea who he was and could never do anything about it if he kept all the money himself.

Did he give them some kind of assurance that he wouldn't—couldn't—simply disappear altogether?


...Justin

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There's more than one plot hole in this story (such as Joe Rolfe inferring that Tim Foster, the fisherman, must have been the Big Man because only he knew that Pete Harris had been in Tijuana, when in fact the police had already found the name of the dead guy, which they communicated to Foster on the phone). But in this case they simply didn't have a choice: Pete Harris does express this "concern" to the Big Man in the beginning, and that's the answer he gets. It was either getting involved in the robbery and maybe getting tricked later on, or being exposed immediately by the Big Man. Although I do believe that they should have acted in a more careful manner once they reached the small town, they seemed almost sure they'd get the money...

there's a highway that is curling up like smoke above his shoulder

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It just seems as if they would have protested a little harder because the leader had absolutely no motive to give them their share later. The only reason he even got in contact with them, as he had promised, was because he had a trick up his sleeve.

What did you think of the movie, plot holes and all? I still thought it was terrific.


...Justin

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I thought it was terrific, they don't make them like that anymore. From my point of view, they went along with the plan "as is" because they were on the lam and had nothing to lose, which is why they were chosen, me thinks. Great film!

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I guess I'll just have to accept that explanation the next time I watch the movie—which I'm sure I will. Minor plot holes aside, it's a lot of fun.


...Justin

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Yeah, I would have surely protested harder in their place...

Thanks for the fast answer, I wouldn't have expected a living discussion on the board of this movie! And I am sorry for answering this late, I was really busy these days with finally getting through with changing apartments (a process I have started a few months ago ).

As to the rest of the movie, here's the comment I wrote a few days ago:

I think that I can spot two main types of noirs: the tame ones and the wild ones, those built from usual, slightly superficial, mightly archetypal characters, with a mostly straight – or much straighter moral compass; and then there are the wild noirs which, although still subdued to the Almighty Code (unless produced outside the States; even so, they might still be subdued to elementary principles of human decency and affection), are still able to dress up the archetypes in human flesh and bones, to build intimate relationships between them and their environment, between each other , and to skew the moral compass so hard that, often enough, the only thing left from it is a pile of naked human emotions. (after thinking about it some more) But maybe the compass is not really skewed in the case of the wild noir. Maybe it’s just that the moral compass used is of a higher, or less immediate order, considering deeper levels of human connection and fairness thereof... Anyway, hoping that it will make my distinction more clear, here’s a few examples of noirs I consider „tame” vs noirs I consider „wild”: Panic in the Streets, The Dark Mirror, Dark Passage, The Woman in the Window, Kiss Me Deadly, Laura, Sorry, Wrong Number, Nightmare Alley, Raw Deal, (tame), Detour, Gun Crazy, Scarlett Street, The Killers, Nightfall, Night and the City (wild). There are many movies I can’t place in one category or another, so the distinction is only a rough one (besides I suspect that it applies to any movie genre). I am calling them „tame” respectively „wild” because the first ones are compliantly fulfilling our more common ethical and narrative expectations, while the second ones are forcing us to ask questions, probing deeper into the nature of the humans involved, unwilling to bend to our simple expectations, taking us on unknown and uncomfortable roads, like cars stopping to give a lift to a hitchhiker, yet the driver is silent and outside it’s a foggy night and we don’t know where the car will take us. I tend to like the wild noirs better, but there are enough examples of tame ones that got close to my heart.

Well, Kansas City Confidential was a well-built tame noir (though not quite that well-built). And, in its case, that it turned out to be a tame noir was a disappointment, like the before-final act of Ride the Pink Horse, it just looked like in the end the movie had put down its weapons and gave in to a straightforward type of morality, while the rest of it hinted towards a deeper closure. In the end we got a case of good guy wins, although the acts of the good guy were really not that different from those of the defeated wicked master mind: they had both been mistreated by the system and tried to get revenge by committing an unlawful act of their own, except that the act of the good guy didn’t succeed. Besides, many things happened in the movie just because the plot needed to go on, without a serious in-plot justification (such as Joe Rolfe inferring that Tim Foster, the fisherman, must have been the Big Man because only he knew that Pete Harris had been in Tijuana, when in fact the police had already found the name of the dead guy, which they communicated to Foster on the phone). I was also annoyed by the relationship between Rolfe and the remaining two baddies, the way Rolfe kept outsmarting them at every turn was quite monotonous, and they really felt just like two pawns meant to push the plot forward or to get Rolfe to a certain place.

But I did like a few things: the way in which the point of view of the story changed after the robbery (Rolfe, initially just an incidental character, became the lead), Rolfe’s initial behaviour and decisions (disregarding upright behaviour in face of the circumstances and taking things in his own hands, he would have really deserved a better fate than to be made the general good guy in the end!), the fact that the story moved from a Big City to Mexico, and then even deeper in Mexico (although the final stop of the story was so much less endearing than Tijuana, with its seedy yet benevolent cab driver and its sleazy taverns), and the way in which the name „Pete” kept having a strangely-fated bearer who either denied being Pete (Pete Harris’ first sentence on the phone), or who was trying to become Pete (Rolfe). The contrast of the „Pete” with the other two small-time baddies was interesting.

there's a highway that is curling up like smoke above his shoulder

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such as Joe Rolfe inferring that Tim Foster, the fisherman, must have been the Big Man because only he knew that Pete Harris had been in Tijuana, when in fact the police had already found the name of the dead guy, which they communicated to Foster on the phone


Hmmm, not sure about this one. I think the point being why would the Tijuana police have had any reason to contact (by telegram, not phone) Foster. What reason would Foster, if he was just an ex-cop, have for thinking that Harris had been in Tijuana? Well, apart from the fact that Rolfe had signed in at the hotel as Pete Harris, Tijuana...

But there is a problem here (unless this was actually your point), because Foster says that they had the Big Man from the beginning and it's conceivable that he could've spilled the beans and told them the identity of all the gang members and where they'd been hiding out.

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I found this aspect pretty far-fetched. Mr Big says to Pete at the beginning, either I turn you in or you agree to do this job for me, but you can never see my face. Seriously why didn't Pete just say, yeah, sure I'll participate, but really get the hell out of town. I've seen lots of heist movies, and you always have to be suspicious about not getting your cut, so if you're going to participate you need to have some reason to trust who you're working for (either by personal experience or their reputation). Made no sense at all that Pete or the other two would agree to this type of set-up. That's just one of several problems with this movie that left me disappointed at the end.

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The motivation to throw in with Mr. Big is a classic combination of carrot, in the form of $300K for each desperate crook, and stick, in the form of the cops getting informed of the roles each has played in Capital crimes. The reason they don't scram after the no-choice pact is, they need and want the dough and they realize it will be just a matter of time until they're caught if Mr. Big gives the cops the lowdown on them. So, because of their greed and their fear, they're stuck but don't really care. As crooks they're used to taking big chances for dishonest money, so that part of the deal doesn't really concern them all that much.

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One point that has not been brought up is that originally the three did not know that they were going to have to go away and wait for the split.

The "Big Man" told them that he would decide when to split but did not tell them they would have to wait a long while until he had a gun on them and they were already on the run. At that point they had no choice but to try to fight it out with him or take his offer. Being masked and unknown to each other they could not judge if they could trust each other in a spontaneous mutiny.

Also it is just a movie, an dramas of this time very often relied on the stronger willed person, bullying the others to bend to his will.

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It seemed Foster knew his crew were greedy enough to not settle for a couple thousand of wait money in exchange for a quarter million. Fosters motive was to break a case for the police dept. that forced him to retire and be re-instated.

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___Even though these threads are old, I just wanted to add that the plot holes are huge, and I find amusing today. A simple florist delivery guy isn't very likely to one, want to break a complex case like this, or two, have the means to accomplish it. Seems it could have taken years of tracking and financing to get even a clue. Also, don't see the ex cops motivation for cracking the case open in the end. He had over 10 million to live on in Mexico, no reason to live up to splitting to dough, and taking a chance of getting caught. It's just a movie plot, but what a fool!

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