MovieChat Forums > Quo Vadis (1951) Discussion > Sadly almost totally devoid of historica...

Sadly almost totally devoid of historical accuracy


Most of what people believe about Nero is the opposite of the truth. I've read claims that he burned the ghettos because of plague but the truth is the fires were likely accidental. He wasn't even in Rome when it burned but returned when he heard of the fires and at least one historian of the time states that Nero took part in the search for survivors walking among the people with the protection of his guards and spent a great deal of his fortune helping the victims even opening his palace to survivors. This fits better with what is known of his rule. Many nobles complained about Nero because he sought to help the poor and established fair laws. They thought he was out for popularity. It's ironic how he's remembered because he was likely one of the better rulers of Rome. The other irony is Nero was remembered as a brutal rulers not because of his treatment of the poor but his brutality to other nobles and his own family. He's credited with a number of murders including his wife and mother. Most of the deaths were over consolidating power. There's little doubt Nero was sane and his rule was no more bloody than most leaders of Rome and the people in general prospered under Nero and strongly supported him. I'd love to see a studio film that told the true story of Nero but the myth is considered more entertaining than the reality so the myth will endure at the expense of the truth.

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Yes, it has been argued that the portrayal of Nero as a madman and a tyrant isn't true. Just like some people argue that Poppaea, his second wife, wasn't that bad either, despite how she was portrayed later. But nevertheless, it seems like their bad reputation goes very far back. While I can't say exactly how far back, my guess right now would be that it started pretty soon after their deaths. I think you might be right that they didn't do much harm to common people (with the prosecutions of the Christians as a notable exception), but only to the nobility. But still, you don't seem to deny that Nero might have had his own mother and his first wife murdered. I wonder if any other Roman emperor did such a thing! And he also maybe caused Poppaea's death, by kicking her even though she was pregnant until she had a miscarriage.

Henryk Sienkiewicz portrays Nero and Poppaea as villains, yes, but with their reputation, who wouldn't have? And I think "Quo vadis" is a very interesting novel, even though it now has been years since I last read it. While the main characters are nobility or royalty, we also get glimpses of how common people would have lived their lives. I can't help wondering where someone could find information about that back in the 1890s, but Sienkiewicz did a very a good job. He also received the Nobel price of literature in 1905, which I say he really deserved.

Intelligence and purity.

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Yes, Nero acquitted himself well during the fire of 64, even opening his palace to those made homeless and organizing food relief, and even Tacitus says the story of him singing "The Sack of Ilium" during the conflagration was a rumor. But he did blame the Christians and use them as torches in his garden and he did build the sumptuous Golden House on land cleared by the fire.

Though he was no Elegabalus, Nero was not one of the better emperors. He likely killed his 14 year old stepbrother Britannicus for fear of his becoming a rival. And once he got rid of Seneca he pretty much lost all interest in governing the empire in favor of a stage career as a singer, which was taken on with such passion that it eclipsed all interest in affairs of state. The British rebellion was handled by his generals, and the major diplomatic triumph with the Armenian-Parthian problem was mainly another excuse to put on a big show in Rome.

His later years found him running around Greece winning every singing contest and even a chariot race that he didn't complete because he was thrown from the chariot. He was ecstatic over these victories and made a triumphant tour of southern Italy on his return, just before his overthrow. He seems to have had an artistic temperament that overrode any interest in the empire. There was an erratic streak in all of the Julio-Claudians and it became more and more pronounced in Nero as time went by.

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A 19th century novel turned into a Hollywood 50's blockbuster and we're complaining about a lack of historical accuracy? Wow! That's unusual.

It's not too bad IMO and doesn't go over the top fudging things.

Yes, Nero did persecute Christians, blaming them for the burning of Rome of which he may well have had an involvement. He did send them into the Colosseum to face gruesome deaths. He was also, as depicted, a patron of the arts. As far as I'm concerned he was as mad as a cut snake, but others may dispute that.

Around that historical core a fictional story involving the beginnings of the rise of Christianity in Rome has been strung together embracing biblical/historical characters like Peter,Paul and Petronius (who did die IRL pretty much as portrayed on screen.

The producers have compressed timelines, brought forward Nero's death by a couple of years and every one speaks with American or English accents. Big deal! It's not a great film IMO, but at the same time didn't make claims about its story being true to life.

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A 19th century novel turned into a Hollywood 50's blockbuster and we're complaining about a lack of historical accuracy? Wow! That's unusual.


It may "only" be 1950s historic epic, based on a late 19th century novel, but the thing is that Ustinov's brilliant performance is probably what defined the *historical* character of Nero for millions of people. So ignoring historical reality in something as trivial as a Hollywood-movie can have a huge impact on how people perceive real historical events and characters.


Of course, there are so many problems with authenticity in this period of history:

1. Factual, objective recording of historical events and people's roles in them wasn't even a thing back then. People had no problem injecting recent history with their own views - basically, historical records from back then can just as easily be viewed as propaganda rather than a reliable account of facts. Especially when it comes to matters of politics and/or emperors. And especially when we're talking about the more outrageous claims about certain figures: It was quite normal to paint historical figures that had fallen out of favor as outrageous monsters.

2. Christian influence/propaganda written about the events centuries after they happened. Painting Nero as the Anti-Christ, twisting some of the facts surrounding the persecution of Christians, whitewashing the nature of the Christian faith back in those days, etc.
Ancient Christians/Jesus being opposed to slavery? Simply not true. The Old Testament is filled with all sorts of rules regarding slavery and AFAIK there's no evidence that early Christians were opposed to the practice. Heck, Christians continued to keep slaves until the mid 19th century.

I've read quite a few modern interpretations of the events that suggested that Christians *might* actually have been responsible for the fire, since they were a pretty radical sect back then that was anxiously waiting for the world to end. I'm not saying they did start the fire, mind you, since fires in Ancient Rome were quite common and this one was probably just another accidental fire. But the story of a mad emperor setting his own city ablaze "for art's sake" always struck me as pretty unbelievable, too.


S.

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Quo Vadis is a fiction. And, it's true that a fictional characterization can persuade an audience (your Ustinov example). This can be said of Shakespeare as well. The only way this dynamic can be avoided is by eliminating fiction from our store of literature. Wouldn't want to do that. Besides, as Aristotle said, fiction deals with the what might have happened and the what may happen rather than with the what did happen and is, therefore, often more valuable to a culture than is an "accurate" history.

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So ignoring historical reality in something as trivial as a Hollywood-movie can have a huge impact on how people perceive real historical events and characters.
Grandiose claims such as this are frequently bandied around the IMDB boards, by "history police" representatives without any research substantiation. Just how historically accurate do you want your historical fiction to be? Are you suggesting for instance that figures such as Shakespeare, should be condemned for their historically inaccurate depictions of real life characters such as Macbeth? It's impossible to regulate the amount of fiction employed by artists developing historical projects of all types. Nor should we try. Fiction is fiction. Let's just leave it at that.šŸ­

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"Research substantiation"? Don't be absurd. This is an informal forum, not a term paper, thesis, dissertation, or journal article. Do your own research.

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Here's a question. You seem to know a good deal about the era depicted in this movie, and something you said just now made me wonder: If we're talking about antiquity, how much Greek and Roman literature of ANY KIND is even extant today (from the most profound writings on science, philosophy and drama to the most boring shipping invoices)?

Do you think every surviving scrap of writing from Greek and Roman antiquity would even fill up 100 volumes today? 1000 volumes? 10 thousand?

My spidey-sense tells me it'd be closer to the first figure.

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Now Nero didn't burn Rome? I'll bet it was done for occult purposes. This has been done elsewhere, including Chicago. The city is rebuilt in an occult pattern, to give power to the rulers that be.

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Nobody deliberately burned Rome. The place was a tinderbox that had no concept of fire safety. The housing of the poor in particular was incredibly unsafe, and a small cooking accident in one person's apartment could easily set his whole building alight, and once that happened it was ridiculously easy for it to spread to the next building and the next because they were all packed together. If anyone was to blame for the fires that often broke out in Rome, including the great fire of 64, it's the rich slumlords who packed the poor into unsafe, poorly designed, crowded tenements because they didn't care if they lived or died.

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