What a pity! - The Amos 'n Andy Show (1951) Discussion

[–] adhf56 17 years ago

I agree with you 100 percent. This is a great show and certainly NOT racist.

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[–] deloisfromil 17 years ago

i think some ppl thought it poked fun at black ppl, i just thought it was funny, i own most of the series, looking for two more, and also i think the kingfish and andy, also amos and dont forget calhoun, should be on the hollywood walk of fame.

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[–] DrakeStraw 12 years ago

The black stars should be there, but only Gosden and Correll have their stars!

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[–] HillieBoliday 17 years ago

I remember watching this on TV in the 50's. During that time, I was a little
too young to understand the humor; but simply enjoyed seeing my people on
television, which pretty much was still in it's early years.

During the early 60's, I remember watching it again, with a much better
understanding and comprehension of the humor.

On the other hand, I distinctly remember my grandmother hated this show!

There were times when she would laugh at the humor, especially when Kingfish was catching hell from Saffire for not getting/having/keeping a job!

She hated that his character was lazy, shiftless, sneaky, deceitful, and basically dishonest.

My grandmother was very verbal about how she felt about this show, and sometimes would not let us watch.

In her life and the lives of the people she knew and loved; ALL of the black
men worked, and did not pull low-down deceitful tricks on their friends and family. And if they were unemployed, they beat that pavement until they found something they could work at to earn money to feed and take care of their
families. Now I know that in every culture across the board, you have people
who fit these descriptions...my grandmother felt that this show condoned and
promoted this behavior...and she did not like it!!

I am now 59 years old, and I have the 16 DVD box set with 71 episodes.
I now totally understand the humor..........but more importantly, I now totally
understand the feelings of my grandmother from some 50 years ago.

Again, although I enjoy the humor; and although Tim Moore (a good actor/comedian) was just portraying a character; I concur with my grandmother.

I see why there was such an outcry from the African-American viewing audience
and public at large. That stereotypical image needed to be removed from television, because a new tide was beginning to turn. Racists hearts needed to be touched, and hateful minds needed to be changed; and that was not going to be accomplished by playing these episodes through a "medium" that needed to be used in a more favorable manner.

They were funny.....but they were harmful at the same time, for that time and era. I think we are now better able to appreciate these A&A shows for the humor they so richly contain.

"OOO...I'M GON' TELL MAMA!"

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[–] mikemck 17 years ago

Admittedly, the TV show was a little before my time, so I've never seen it, except in retrospectives, usually telling us how evil it was.

But, through the magic of various old time radio clubs and broadcasts, I'm very familiar with the radio program.

Not only is it not racist, it portrayed the two black main characters as hard working, well meaning (if not always very bright) men who loved their families and always found a way to outsmart the bad guy.

Imagine, two black men running successful businesses and being contributing members of the community back in the 30's and 40's! In a time when black men were thought so poorly of and considered to be so sexually uncontrollable that a black man could be killed just for looking the wrong way at a white woman, these men were devoted to their families.

It's no more racist that the equally unfairly maligned "Song of the South".

It's been my experience that the people who say that they are have never actually seen or heard either of them, but are just going on second hand information that seems to make them worse with each passing generation.

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[–] HillieBoliday 17 years ago

Too bad Hollywood WOULD NOT during that time, follow the complete format of
the radio shows and portray these men as hard working and involved in funny
escapades at the same time. Although some may not view these shows as racist,
they did serve to perpetuate and feed this attitude that already existed
among some of our "select viewers."

I am very much aware of the radio predecessor to these TV shows, although
I have never heard them. I will try to seek out copies so that I can listen
to them for myself.

Fortunately,I don't have to imagine two black men running successful businesses during that era.

There were black men in my family long before I came along, that were able to own and operate their own places of business.
They were not by any means, high end corporations; but they were self contained and provided a wonderful living for them and their families, while promoting a great sense of self worth and accomplishment.

My grandmother coming from a time,(in Arkansas), knew firsthand the
insulting pain, and oppression suffered by blackmen; and it would just rack
her A$$ when they were blatantly displayed in such a disparaging light!

Let me reiterate or clarify, that my grandmother would laugh at some of these
episodes....but that laughter would soon turn to disdain and verbal criticism to the TV screen when Kingfish would go through changes to avoid honest work, and indulge in pulling some of his backstabbing tricks.

What's really funny, is that my brothers and I, would sneak into another
room, and laugh our heads off at my grandmother fussing at Kingfish on the TV!

I am not going on secondhand information. As I stated in my previous post,
I remember seeing these shows in the fifties, and again in the 60's until they disappeared altogether from television. I have A DVD box set, and have enjoyed watching each episode; although now my daughter laughs at me while I fuss at Kingfish on the TV! I can now form a more adult opinion, and I still understand why these shows were finally removed. It was necessary, so that
"the start" of a more positive and correct representation of black people could be introduced to the viewing audience.

Again, I am glad they took them off; but am appreciative of the fact that
I can now own copies of them for myself.

"OOO...I'M GON' TELL MAMA!"

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[–] mikemck 17 years ago

A more positive and correct portrayal?

You mean like "Good Times"? Where the family was happy to be on welfare and had no immediate plans to get off it?

Or the various "blaxploitation" movies? How about rap "music"? Now there's a positive portrayal of black people.

The ironic thing is that, by the time the Huxtables came along, the black community had deteriorated so badly that even many black people found the idea laughable.

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[–] mannmarsh 17 years ago

After reading some of the replys... I am at a loss for comments to some of you. The Amos and Andy cast all should have their place on Hollywoods Walk of Fame. It is a shame that The NAACP treaetd it like they did. They (the cast) were all excellent actors. Kingfish was my favorite among them. Since The Amos and Andy Show is in the public domain and anyone can sell, give, or loan if out, I will send a disk full of episodes to a few who request it. Post a reply with your e-mail address and we can discuss it further if you are interested. So to not be flooded with requests, if any, I will post another reply after I have distributed a few copies to a few people. I do this because I think the Amos and Andy Show should be on TV NOW. It is one of the Greatest Comedies ever created (in my opinion). But, I am a white man and may not know what I am talking about according to some. They all should be given their due... they paid their dues, each and every one to become great actors. Enough said.

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[–] EJWCOMMRE 17 years ago

I just watched two A 'n' A episodes tonight-ANDY IN COLLEGE and KINGFISH THE MATCHMAKER. I watched these as a child and loved them as I did the cons of SGT. BILKO or McHALE's NAVY.Their race had nothing to do with the humor. Despite Kingfish's constant unemployent, he and Sapphire lived a middle class life and the show not only had Black professional's but they were integrated in White society ie. the "graduation" of Andy Brown. I think the NAACP objected to the show because Whites created and played the main characters although the radio supporting cast were all Black and also appeared in the TV version. I've listened to most of the 1940's-50's situation based radio shows.Creators Gosden and Correll certainly sounded like their video counterparts, but there is never a reference to ANY race on the radio or TV shows. One White actress-Shirley Mitchell-actually played Andy's girl friend on radio in the same voice she used on GREAT GILDERSLEEVE as a Southern Caucasion.
To those who say White producers forced actors such as Stepin Fetchit to play demeaning roles, look at some of the films geared to Black audiences like MIRACLE IN HARLEM. This was one of the biggest hits ever to play in all "Negro" theaters and starred Fetchit acting as he always did.
The TV cast should be recognized.(Ernestine Wade and I believe Alvin Childress appeared on Tom Snyder show in the 1970's. It would be interesting to see their comments again which I believe were favorable)

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[–] movieghoul 16 years ago

Andy in college. THat brings a smile to my face, thinking of how Kingfish explains that it really only takes 4 weeks to get a college degree if you cut out all the football rallies and other social activities.

In retrospect, though, it's certainly unclear how Kingfish and Sapphire were able to maintain thir lifestyle while he was constantly unemployed. They were well dressed, lived in a well appointed brownstone apartment and dined on rib roasts.

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[–] cinema_universe 16 years ago

They maintained their lifestyle because Sapphire supported her husband.
Such support is mentioned in several episodes, --usually by Sapphire.

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I've listened to recordings of several of the radio episodes (which were before my time), and it's just not the same. Yes indeed, the characterizations were quite different-- the men were portrayed with much more sentiment-- but they were done so by white men.
...and even though those white men wrote the original A & A stories, there is something missing from their portrayals....like, authenticity.

Tim Moore and Spencer Williams were accomplished actors, with many years experience. They have committed to film some of the most amazing, --if controversial-- characterizations ever done for national television. The fact that we're still discussing this is proof of that.

I completely understand the post by Hillie Bolliday, who talks of now understanding Grandmother's feelings. What's more, those other posters who think that there was nothing wrong (and who mention The Honeymooners) are part of the problem or insensitivity.
For one thing, in the early 1950s TV seasons, --when A & A was on the air,-- there were NO other black families portrayed in a regular TV series on CBS, or on any other nationwide network.
When The Honeymooners was originally aired, there were MANY OTHER shows about white families, and almost all portrayed those families in a better light than Gleason did of the Kramdens.
So such comparisons are completely unfair.

When I was a small child in the 1950s, I didn't know anything about A & A being wrong-- but I understand that now (even though, like everyone here, I love this show).
For the record, I am a white man who grew up in New York City,
--and like the poster whom I mentioned, I am also 59.

--D.--

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[–] bradford-1 14 years ago

One thing that hurt A&A is that at the time of its initial run and through most of its syndicated life, there were no programs to counteract it. I know it sounds unbelievable to people under 40, but through much of early TV, you NEVER saw anyone black except on variety shows, sports, and very occasional guest spots in "liberal" dramas. Blacks didn't appear in commercials, network or local. Circa 1954, there were no black detectives, cowboys, nurses, spies, or soldiers on a regular basis. No black characters on soap operas except as servants. Maybe a few black kiddies made it to the audiences of local "Romper Rooms," I don't know.
A&A was out there alone, and it suffered for it. A black equivalent to DRAGNET, WAGON TRAIN, or MEDIC may have helped it survive. Or maybe not.
"We're fighting for this woman's honor, which is more than she ever did."

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[–] kinchradio 14 years ago

Great point Bradford, I agree, since it was the only show on, it became an easy target. Sanford and Son was just as bad, but things had changed by then.

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[–] pianojane 14 years ago

I watched Amos 'n Andy as a child and loved it. I recently watched a couple of episodes on DVD and the humor still holds up after 50 years. I agree get the DVDs now before they disappear due to political correctness.

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[–] boresox 13 years ago

It will happen some day when minorities, (especially blacks) are in the majority and can laugh at themselves. Many of us love old westerns when they said the only good indian was a dead indian, and always made the indians out to be savages. White people don't like it when stories of their dark pasts are brought to light either...Like the KKK for example.

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[–] bradford-1 13 years ago

Like MacArthur, I have returned! Since my last post, I've gathered about 25 A&A episodes and find the bulk of them quite entertaining. The Christmas episode had me bawling like a 2-year-old, depite the sentimentality. I also have seen a coupla of the independent films written and directed by Spencer Williams. Surprisingly, they were heavy on religiosity, and even though they were done on shoestring budgets, Williams did try a few cinematic moves.

"We're fighting for this woman's honor, which is more than she ever did."

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[–] jglapin 12 years ago

AS a kid in the 1950s I watched this show and loved every minute of it. It did not need to be politicized. It was nothing but fiction to me.

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[–] uscmd 11 years ago

I also REALLY, REALLY liked the show. In 1951 I was 5 yrs old and trust me, there just wasn't much on tv. The show was well written, well casted and consistently funny.

I was only vaguely aware of the whole color issue, living in a very white neighborhood, and even now, 60 years later I doubt any caucasian can really get what it meant to be black, as America went through the labor pains of moving towards racial equality. I watched "42" a few days ago, and found JR's treatment, almost unbelievable. What an incredible human being he was.

In todays news we are revisiting whether or not the Washington redskins, team name is offensive, and whether or not the league should step in and force the team to change it. Like Amos and Andy.....we may not "get it", but if a group in our country finds it offensive, the rest of us ought to be sensitive to their pain.

There is no way we can walk a mile in their shoes, no way for one group to fully appreciate anothers pain.

If you haven't seen "42" I strongly recommend it. In a few more generations, kids won't be able to imagine how bad it was in the 20th centrury and before. Good for us.

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[–] Ethereal-Cloud 11 years ago

I recently walked by the CD box-sets in my library and glimpsed the Amos 'n Andy (radio show) 20 CD collection and peered around me to see if anyone was looking. I surreptitiously picked it up and put it under a book and a DVD as if I was buying a sex toy in a Mormon town. I brought it home and loaded it on my computer, then to my MP3 player and listened to it at my leisure.

HOLY HELL!!!! This stuff is GOLDEN! You bet there's justification for some people to claim that it doesn't show the characters in a 'positive light', but then it's not that the characters wouldn't have been any less silly if they'd been Caucasian. After finishing 14 of the 20 discs, I'd say they are adorable and lovable, much like the dimwitted characters on the Honeymooners. I only hope that there are more of these shows on CD, 'cause I be wantin' more!

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[–] TennesseeTarheel 11 years ago

I agree that the Honeymooners were dim-witted, but I disagree that Amos and Andy were. Not trying to patronize here, but I never thought disparagingly of the Amos and Andy characters. Like another reviewer wrote, I thought of them as friends I visited each week with some new crazy adventure, sort of like Lucy and Ricky. Ralph Kramden satirized the working man and I never related to him as I did A and A, even despite the color difference. Guess I don't fit the sterotype, either.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] barjo4 10 years ago

I am nearly 70 and I grew up in Illinois where 85% of the kids in grade school were black and everyone got along. I don't pretend what it was to be black. That would be foolish and dishonest. Those kids were always welcome in our house and we all grew up together. During that time in the early 50s, Amos & Andy were on both radio and television and the black kids watched it the same as I did. The radio version was hugely popular in the 40s and 50s.

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