MovieChat Forums > Rio Grande (1950) Discussion > Rio Grande and Major Dundee

Rio Grande and Major Dundee

posted 19 years ago by smith93
3 replies | jump to latest

Anyone notice the similarities between Rio Grande and Major Dundee? In alot of ways, Peckinpah basically re-worked Fords film using plot elements that were very similar but to a very different effect. For example: The civil war background (although in the past in the former movie and the present in the latter) with the different ideas of who one's loyalty is owed to as understood by the Norther character versus the Southern character. There is also the mission to illegally cross into mexico to rescue children taken prisoner by raiding Apaches, which can be read in light of contemporary (to each film) events. Look at how a late 40's early 50's view of such a military action contrasts with a vietnam era view. And in each movie many of the men carrying out the mission would not have been the first choices to do so: green recruits or mercenaries and traitors. There are even significant scenes of the troops singing in both films.

I encourage anyone who likes one or the other of these films to watch both side by side and give some feedback about what you though. Pretty interesting, eh?

[–] pocomarc 18 years ago

Smith,

That was excellent.

Everything you say is true.

Your comments leaves me with nothing to add.

[–] flyer333555 17 years ago

Although I like your analysis overall, in both movies there is reliance in regular troops.

That is, on Rio Grande not all troopers fighting the Indians are green troops. There are some recruits mixed in but some are veterans. Witness the scene where the Indians attack near the fort. Green troopers would not have been able to respond that way.

Same in Major Dundee. If I remember correctly, about half were Union soldiers, and half were Rebel prisoners. I remember seeing blue uniforms as well as grey uniforms. If anything, he has to take Union otherwise some Rebels wouuld rebel again or just spirit away. Although some would stay out of honor to the vow they gave Dundee.

[–] MAGolding (1240) 7 years ago

Your reply is good but you make too big a distinction between regular troops and recruits.

US soldiers can be part of the militia or national guard, or part of temporary federal units raised during war, such the the levies in the Northwest Indian War, the US Volunteers in the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Civil War, and the Spanish American War, the National Army in World War I, and the Army of the United States during World War II, Korea, and Vietnam, or they can be regulars. Regulars are members of the permanent and standing army of the US, the regular army or the United States Army.

A regular can be a new recruit - they all have to start as recruits - or a long term veteran or in between. When the recruits arrive in Rio Grande Col. Yorke says he was promised 180 men but only sent 18. Since he seems to have 3 or 4 troops of cavalry at the fort, the 18 recruits are about 10 percent of his forces. He also has several Navajo Indian scouts.

Major Dundee has at least two troops of companies of the 5th United States Cavalry (regular army) at Fort Benlin, despite the Fifth not being stationed in New Mexico during the war. In real life most of the soldiers in New Mexico during the war would have been in volunteer units raised in New Mexico, Colorado, and California. The black soldiers at the fort would have been members of the United States Colored Troops raised during the war, and probably infantry.

Dundee says he will take only a few soldiers from the garrison and recruits volunteers from civilian and military prisoners in the stockade and from the Rebel prisoners. My thread "Numbers" in the Major Dundee section discusses the numbers.

PS one of the few regular army units that stayed in New Mexico during the Civil War was the Fifth - the Fifth US Infantry that is. In case anyone wonders if the US Army would have enlisted someone who looked as young as Bugler Tim Ryan does, Thomas J. Foy was born 18 July 1849 and enlisted as a drummer in Company G, Fifth Us Infantry, at Fort Defiance on 16 September, 1860, aged 11 years, 1 month and 27 days, being the son of a soldier. Foy was one of over eighty men claimed to have been the youngest soldier in the Civil War.