I know this question is kind of pointless, but it's been bothering me.
It's obviously implied that Harriet's sway over Walter is mostly sexual, but since she lied about being unable to have children how did she avoid getting pregnant? It's not like you'd use birth control with your husband if you were infertile. This is just a plot hole, right?
This is 1852 dumplin', 1852. Not the dark ages!
I'm sure she took contraceptive pills behind her husband's back.
How in the hell does "Crash" win Best Picture and "Do The Right Thing" didnt even get nominated?
I don't think they even had birth control pills in 1950, and the times being what they were, she might even have had to get her husband's permission to take them.
I agree with you, though, how could a piece of junk like Crash beat both Capote and Brokeback Mountain. The Academy will probably be scratching their heads over that for years to come.
Violet! You're turning violet, Violet!
She may have used the rhythm method or a diaphragm (without Walter knowing) in those days to avoid pregnancy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaphragm_%28contraceptive%29
"Although in Europe, the cervical cap was more popular than the diaphragm, the diaphragm became one of the most widely used contraceptives in the United States. In 1940, one-third of all U.S. married couples used a diaphragm for contraception. The number of women using diaphragms dropped dramatically after the 1960s introduction of the IUD and the combined oral contraceptive pill. In 1965, only 10% of U.S. married couples used a diaphragm for contraception."
Remember us, for we too have lived, loved and laughed
The birth control pill was developed in the late 1950's and approved by the FDA in 1960. In addition to diaphragms, although they were illegal (so were contraceptives of any kind in many states) abortion was very common in that era. Although poor women had to resort to back alley abortions (Joan Crawford herself reputedly had several when she was a struggling chorus girl) a woman of Harriet Craig's station could easily have gotten an (illegal) abortion performed by a competent physician.
shareWell, the fact that she looks like she's in her 50's might have something to do with it. "Later" Joan Crawford is one of those women for whom a major suspension of disbelief on the audience's part is required if her character's supposed to be youngish. Corey looks a LOT younger than she does which is no small feat considering the poor guy was an alcoholic. They really should have axed the reproduction issue here.
shareI have not seen this movie in years, and caught only about half an hour of it today.
My sister told me that when she saw it, she thought it was broadly implied that "Harriet" had an abortion.
I don't know what particular scene or line made her think this, so I would have to see it again.
The idea would certainly fit the character, as "Harriet" would do anything to keep her home and life in order. Although abortion would have been a taboo subject in movies, it is hinted at in GONE WITH THE WIND and THE GOOD EARTH (the only two movies that come to mind at the moment); so the subject was not completely off limits.
I would have to agree with you. It seems to me that the only way a woman would know for certain that she can have children is if she has been pregnant. Harriet tells Walter during the final showdown that she knows she can have children.
I don't recall that it's hinted at in the movie version of GWTW but in the novel, Scarlett tells Rhett point blank that she wants an abortion when she finds out that she's pregnant with Bonnie.
I am curious to see HARRIET CRAIG again, now.
When Rhett and Scarlett are standing on the landing of their staircase, after he and Bonnie are home from London and Scarlett reveals she is pregnant, Rhett says something like, "Well, maybe you will have an accident." which I always assumed meant an abortion, but that might be because of what I remembered from the book.
I just realized that "O-lan" from THE GOOD EARTH does not have an abortion, but does kill her baby as soon as it is born. I know that isn't the same thing, so that was my mistake.
When Rhett and Scarlett are standing on the landing of their staircase, after he and Bonnie are home from London and Scarlett reveals she is pregnant, Rhett says something like, "Well, maybe you will have an accident.
In GWTW the novel the exact line is "Maybe you'll have a miscarriage." Obviously the Production Code wouldn't allow that so in the movie Rhett said "Maybe you'll have an accident." My theory as to how Harriet avoided getting pregnant is that she used the rhythm method and only gave her husband "all access" when she wasn't ovulating. (This is of course setting aside the fact that Joan was nearly menopausal when she did this movie.)
shareYes, you're exactly right which is how I know Rhett meant it literally (in this case, even though the terms "abortion" and "miscarriage" are often used interchangeably in the medical profession, it's clear he means fate lending a hand). If you recall, she wants to take matters into her own hands when she discovers she's pregnant with Bonnie and "miscarriage" isn't used but it's clear she plans to have an abortion with the help of one of her cronies (Mamie something-or-other, I think).
shareThe word "abortion" wasn't allowed in American films until the early 1960's. It was allowed in plays. Maybe the stage performance of "Craig's Wife" offers a clue.
shareI wonder. I don't recall that Harriet's childlessness was mentioned in the earlier version, although that doesn't mean it wasn't there. Could it be just in this version? Maybe in the play AND this version?
shareIt may not have been, although it was easier to address abortion on stage, even in the 1920's. "Harriet Craig" was supposed to have been updated and also tailored to be a vehicle for Joan Crawford. Aspects of her life (such as working in a laundry) were added to the film. The Rosalind Russell film portrayed Harriet as cold and asexual, as well as monsterously self centered. There was a scene in which her dislike of children is evident (she objected to a little boy playing in her house) but her childlessness is not directly addressed.
It's true that a woman could not know she was capable of getting pregnant without having been pregnant (especially considering the primitive state of reproductive technology). Maybe this was more borrowing from Joan Crawford's personal life. She adopted for children, supposedly after a series of miscarriages. But people who were close to her don't recall her ever announcing these pregnancies or being treated for any miscarriages. She supposedly had a series of badly botched abortions in her youth (she told Barbara Stanwyck she had seven) which made further pregnancies impossible.
Didn't she abort at least one pregnancy that resulted from her on-off association with Clark Gable? And even now, frequent abortions can wreak havoc on a woman's ability to carry a pregnancy to term although my wife knows someone who claims to have had at least a dozen. She was Romanian and it was the only method of "birth control" permitted. She later went on to have a healthy daughter but not before her gynecologist managed to smuggle a diaphragm into the country from Hungary.
share"Didn't she abort at least one pregnancy that resulted from her on-off association with Clark Gable? And even now, frequent abortions can wreak havoc on a woman's ability to carry a pregnancy to term although my wife knows someone who claims to have had at least a dozen. She was Romanian and it was the only method of "birth control" permitted. She later went on to have a healthy daughter but not before her gynecologist managed to smuggle a diaphragm into the country from Hungary."
Clark Gable, as we know, impregnated Loretta Young on the set of "Call of the Wild". As promiscuous as she was, Loretta was also a fervent Catholic who refused to even consider an abortion. At the same time, an out of wedlock pregnancy would have ended her career in 1935. So she feigned a mysterious illness and disappeared from view during the latter stages of her pregnancy, and about a year and one half after her daughter's birth announced her "adoption" of a little girl, who looked EXACTLY like the offspring of a pairing of herself and Clark Gable (the girl had outstanding ears like her father, which Loretta had pinned back surgically). Supposedly Gable chastised Loretta for not taking precautions (not that he took any) and according to one version, suggested Loretta abort the pregnancy, citing a pregnancy Joan Crawford recently aborted during one of their screen pairings.
I doubt that Clark Gable would have made such a suggestion to Loretta Young, whose piety was outrageously overdone (she installed fonts of holy water at all the entrances to her home, and "fined" people who used profanity on the sets of her films and television show). Anyhow, what I've always heard is that Crawford had back alley abortions before she became a star that prevented further pregnancies. Once she became a star, the studio could have arranged a safe albeit illegal abortion (the studios actually kept doctors on retainer for this purpose).
Actually, under the dictatorship of Ceausescu in Romania, both abortion and birth control were illegal. Everyone without children over the age of 25 had to pay a special tax, and women were forced to undergo regular gynecological examinations to make sure they were not using birth control (such as IUDs). They were also forced to take regular pregnancy tests and if pregnancy was confirmed, the state would monitor pregnancies to prevent abortions. If a woman was hospitalized for treatment of a miscarriage, she would very likely be charged with having an illegal abortion (there were secret police attached to gynecological wards of hospitals- Romanians referred to them as "the menstrual police"). In spite of all of these draconian practices, Romania (and other countries in eastern Europe) had extremely high abortion rates (in the Soviet Union, the average woman had eight or nine abortions during her reproductive years). In Romania, all of this spying on ordinary citizens required a huge number of informants (one third of Romanians were said to have acted as informants for the Securitate, the secret police). Undoubtedly, some women facilitated their abortions by agreeing to act as informants. Moreover, the fact that practically all women worked outside the home, and that there were few provisions for consumer goods or household conveniences created massive disincentives to having children.
I know about Loretta Young. It wouldn't follow, though, that he was shooting blanks with Joan Crawford.
Ah, but there was life (such as it was) before Ceausescu in Romania. Abortion was not only legal during the period to which I'm referring but my wife's friend waited as long as she legally could to terminate. She was extremely fecund and nothing, short of total abstinence (not an ideal marital state, especially for a young, very attractive couple), worked so being pregnant provided her with a period during which she didn't have to worry about GETTING pregnant. Perhaps the policy to which you refer resulted from the form of "contraception" described.
Update: Checking Wikipedia, "In 1966, the Ceausescu regime, in an attempt to boost the country's population, made abortion illegal [...]." (emphasis mine) This would indicate that prior to 1966, abortion had been legal.
Ceausescu had just taken power in 1965, so he didn't wait long to criminalize abortion. It had been legalized in the 1950's (as was the case in other Soviet Bloc countries). One reason they had such high abortion rates is that a command economy cannot produce reliable and plentiful contraceptives. Oral contraceptives and condoms weren't illegal in the Soviet Union (unlike Romania). It's just that they might suddenly become unavailable for months at a time, which made their use impractical. In contrast, an abortion just required a doctor with a curette. Ceausescu and his wife Elena wanted to double Romania population to make it a "great power". They created horrendous living conditions (apartments kept at just above freezing temperatures in the winter, regular power cuts, gas pressure so low it took an hour to boil a cup of tea, bans on vacuum cleaners and other "wasteful" appliances- people were only allowed one 40 watt light bulb per room). They never considered that people don't normally want children under such circumstances, especially when women were expected to have a full time job outside the home.
It's possible that Joan Crawford also had abortions after she became a star (which would have meant that she was not rendered infertile by the back alley abortions of her youth). But a well known movie star would not be sent to a butcher working from a kitchen table two flights over a drug store. The studio would find a "clean" doctor, and had enough influence to insure a lack of interference from the police. It's also true that in the 1930's & 40's, studios did not encourage procreation among female stars. It ruined their figures and disrupted film production schedules. I heard that MGM posted a chart with the menstrual cycles of all their female stars. Judy Garland married David Rose when she was still a teenager (mostly to get away from her mother and stepfather). She promptly became pregnant. Her mother (who tried to get an abortion herself when she was pregnant with Judy) pressured her to get an abortion because the studio felt a child at such an early age would ruin her image.
Having myriad abortions, even if performed by a reputable practitioner, can be very hard on the female reproductive system and that's now, with improved medical care. I'm not surprised that Joan Crawford's ability to have children was compromised under the circumstances.
I don't know what kinds of oral contraceptives were available in the USSR in the 1950s given that they were only being tested here in the US then, the USSR didn't manufacture them at all until the 1970s, and they weren't available in Hungary until the end of the '60s. My wife remembers her mother talking about The Pill in the early '60s. My own vivid memories of such things as a kid are of thalidomide and Sherri Finkbine. Weird, the things one remembers.
The irony about Sherri Finkbine is that she was punished for speaking out and trying to warn other women about thalidomide. As a middle class housewife with an obvious need for a therapeutic abortion, she would had no difficulty getting one, even though it was illegal (a hospital in Arizona was all set to perform the abortion until her story broke- she ended up having to go to Sweden to get one). She also lost her job (her husband was suspended from his job) and she received death threats from religious zealots. If she had not spoken out, the abortion would have been done quietly in Phoenix and no one would have known.
shareRegarding the question of whether Crawford had a series of abortions in her early life... Didn't she directly refute that claim in the book "Conversations with Joan Crawford"? Of course, she may not have been truthful, but at least we do know that the stories have been around for quite some time and that she was aware of them...
shareWell, she would say that, wouldn't she? Actually, I think that her adopted daughter Christina did more than a little exaggerating, as well as some lying about her mother (I'm sure Crawford did NOT murder Alfred Steele, her husband and CEO of Pepsi), as Christina has stated. But Crawford was very image conscious and especially wanted to erase all evidence of her hardscrabble background, her struggles to the top of the Hollywood heap, or anything else that reflected negatively on her image. In her day abortion was commonplace (since reliable contraception was largely unavailable) but it was also never discussed (the word could not be uttered in an English language film until the early 1960's). She may have had several abortions, and that may have prevented her from bearing children. She may have been telling the truth when she said she had miscarriages and that she was incapable of carrying a pregnancy to term. It's all speculative.
shareCrawford was very image conscious and especially wanted to erase all evidence of her hardscrabble background...
Anal....
shareThere were IUDs in 1950.
shareMy own theory is that Harriet lied about everything. Who knows what the truth was?
shareShe told the nurse at her mom's sanitarium that "Mr. Craig does not like children". Women in the 1950s had means for birth control, diaphragm as a minimum.
share