Why no children?


I've read that Gleason didn't write in children so they could keep it simple, use certain jokes, etc.

By using the actors ages, Alice is 29, and Ralph is 39. Factor in that they are married 14-15 years. That means they got married when Alice was 16. Just seems odd, especially when their best friends and neighbors, the Nortons, are in the same situation. I guess there was no time to explore and develop this situation is just 39 episodes. Haha.

What I really want to say is I have a crush on Alice Kramden. She was so pretty and had the coolest hair on TV!

“Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the Earth's gravitational pull?”

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Gleason also couldn't stand working with children.

Also, in the show, I think Alice and Trixie are supposed to be like mid-30s.

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Gleason thought that kids would be a distraction and also he didn't feel that it would've been appropriate for the characters to be doing all that arguing in front of kids.

A heart can be broken, but it still keeps a-beatin' just the same.

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I've seen an episode where they try to adopt a baby. Ralph wanted a boy, they got a girl. At first he is upset, but after spending some time with the baby he falls in love. The adoption does not occur because the birth mother had changed her mind. Ralph is heartbroken.

So I guess the very subtle implication was they could not have kids.

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I remember that episode, and I was surprised that Ralph used the word "obstetrician," I didn't think that was allowed in 1950's sit-coms.

I thought back then that any word that suggested babies weren't brought by the stork, wasn't allowed.

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I'm renting the original 39. I'll see if it's one of those.

“Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the Earth's gravitational pull?”

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It's not; it's called "The Adoption," and it's available as part of one of
the "lost" Honeymooners compilations.










I'm not crying, you fool, I'm laughing!

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I don't remember that one but I remember the one where Ralph thought ALice was pregnant and said "No son of mine is going to be a girl" but then at the end said to Alice he hoped someday they did have a girl and she would turn out to be just like Alice. It was sweet.

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I did sixty in five minutes once...

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What was even odder that in a time of domestic family shows like "Make Room for Daddy," "Father Knows Best" and "The Trouble With Father" is that neither the Kramdens nor the Nortons had children.
"We're fighting for this woman's honor, which is more than she ever did."

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Is your tag from Groucho Marx?

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I did sixty in five minutes once...

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You can't go by the actor's age.

I agree though that Alice Kramden was very attractive for her time.


Try not to take life too seriously, no one gets out alive.

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Didn't Audrey and Carney come on American Scene Mazagine and do a remake of the Adoption also in the early 60's?

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Yes - it was in 1966, and it's the last black-and-white Honeymooners episode (though it's videotaped, rather than filmed or kinescoped like the 1950s episodes).

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"Alice Kramden was very attractive for her time"

Yeah, because attractive women were rare in the 1950s.

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A) The Kramdens could barely afford to support themselves.

B) How were they going to raise a child in that apartment

C) The occasional dream of having a child fits in much better with the scenario than the Kramdens actually having a child

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I've seen that one too. I think it was one of the lost episodes and not one of the original 39. It was very sad.

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Kids would have ruined this show

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[deleted]

They were the only Irish couple in Brooklyn in the 50's with no children.

George Carlin: It's all bullsh-t and it's bad for ya.

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Poor Alice would have gotten crushed.


He who conquers himself is mightier than he who conquers a city.

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Come to think of it, there were no children in any of the episodes even as guests. We never saw the kids that gave Ed Norton the measles, who then infected Ralph. We also never saw the kid Tommy whose water pistol Ralph tried to use on a pair of bank robbers (it almost worked).

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Go to 4:10 ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewwq6bY-wR0

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Thanks! I'd never seen this episode-it was one of the lost episodes. I guess by the time Gleason made the Classic 39, he stopped working with children.

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Never showed any children? You might need to watch some of the classic 39. There weren't many instances but 2 come to mind. The first is when Alice got a phone put in and decided to babysit for extra money to pay for it. Ralph, in a jealous rage goes to the house and calls out who he thinks is a guy having an affair with Alice. Turns out to be a kid about 7 or 8 years old. He looks at Ralph with his Raccoon Lodge outfit on and makes the comment about not knowing that Davy Crockett was so fat. The other had teenagers in it and it inspires Ralph to do things young people do. Oh, and IIRC, you do see the little boy filling up his water pistol in the Kramden's sink.

As for The Adoption, it is probably one of the more cutting edge and powerful TV episodes of all time. For the 50's the content was pretty edgy and it's the only episode, be it the classic 39 or lost, that we see Ralph really lose his temper when he nearly killed the doctor who came to tell them that the mother wanted the baby back. And Gleason showing how great an actor he was when he went from being extremely angry to extremely heart broken. One of the few times I've gotten choked up watching a sitcom and being a foster parent myself, I can really understand how the Kramden's feel.

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To answer a query from a year ago: Yes, my sig comes from the climax of DUCK SOUP.
BTW, the Kramdens weren't supposed to be Irish, or any other definable ethnicity. I read that Gleason wanted anyone, regardless of religion, race, or national origin, to be able to identify with Ralph and Alice. It's the same thinking Jack Webb had when he or his main writer, Dick Breen, chose the name "Joe Friday."

"We're fighting for this woman's honor, which is more than she ever did."

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[deleted]

And Gleason showing how great an actor he was when he went from being extremely angry to extremely heart broken. One of the few times I've gotten choked up watching a sitcom

I so totally agree!! Being a "funny" man, Gleason wasn't given the respect as a excellent actor for the most part that he deserved. That scene chokes me up every time...and to do that live without a dozen retakes to get it just right, well Gleason nailed it!!!
Please do not attack me for my opinions...we're all entitled to them.

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There was one child in the episode when Alice was being a babysitter and Ralph though she was having an affair.

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You need some learnin' iffen you think that's the only way.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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Not all married couples have kids now or even back then. In those days, too, if a couple was infertile, they didn't have elaborate fertility treatments. Adoption was in some ways easier in terms of money and legal requirements, but it still wasn't easy. Some couples also simply didn't want children. It was more difficult to prevent due to limited birth control options, but it could be done. I knew a fair number of older relatives and community members who didn't have children and it wasn't considered a great shame. Sometimes they were well-loved by kids as aunties and uncles or adopted aunties and uncles. In one of the "Lost Episodes," Ralph does act like a father to Tommy, who worships Ralph as his hero (the episode is called "Hero").

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[deleted]

I am rather surprised that Ralph and Alice didn't want kids but I guess it wasn't for them.

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As a practical matter there is the problem of child labor laws. There is a requirement that children have to spend a certain amount with a teacher or tutor. Major studios, with many movies and TV show in production could and did set up private schools. "The Honeymooners" was filmed in front of a live audience in an old New York theater. Finding classroom space would have been a problem and they would have to do it for one or two children. It would have been a problem.

Also the interaction between Ralph and Alice was central to the formula of the show. Adding a child would be a distraction.


TAG LINE: True genius is a beautiful thing, but ignorance is ugly to the bone.

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[deleted]

Few points I'd like to make.....

First, not all couples want kids. And a married couple that doesn't want kids is much more likely to hang out with another married couple that doesn't want kids. If you don't want kids, do you want to have to deal with your friends kids non stop?

Secondly, You can't go by an actors age as far as a characters age. How many times have we seen 30 year olds play teenagers after all....

Lastly, keep in mind, we are talking about the 1950's. Things were different back then. Women were expected to marry a good husband in those days, not have a career. I've got an aunt and uncle. They were married over 50 years when he died. He had about 10 years on her (she was 16, he was 25 when they married). Back then the age difference wasn't a big thing. Parents wanted their daughters married. Now days the views are vastly different, thus the point you brought up. Gotta take these shows in context of the time they were made.

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According to the book "The Honeymooners' Companion", it was stated that JG had done an earlier TV series (The Life of Reilly), and that he didn't want Ralph to be like Chester Reilly. (I guess there were kids on that show). Not sure about why the Nortons didn't have children, but it would make sense that couples without children would have that "common ground" to become friends. (After all, they do go out together a lot!) If they had children, it would have changed the dynamics of the show, which at its heart was about Ralph and Alice, and its soul was about Ralph and Ed. Also, there are some episodes that do involve the neighborhood kids (whether they are on screen or off). Also Ralph and Ed are big babies themselves!! (Especially Ralph!)

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If I can comment here. My husband and I not only have the Original 39 episodes, we have the Classics that came on both before and after those. I think there were a number of reasons the Kramdens didn't have any children. For one thing, pregnancies on television were rare; they weren't even allowed to utter the word 'pregnant' on 1950s television. Secondly, Audrey Meadows never had any children in real life and therefore never had a pregnancy for them to write into the script (and in those days, I don't think they would have used pillows underneath clothing to simulate pregnancy). In the 1978 revival shows, it was brought up in two of the four shows that Ralph and Alice never had any children. In fact, in the episode titled "Second Honeymoon", the plot is specifically about Ralph believing Alice is pregnant and how he prepares for the baby's arrival. It ends with Alice telling Ralph, "You know, just because it didn't happen this time doesn't mean we have to stop trying". By then, over 20 years after the original episodes, it wasn't so controversial anymore, although of course both Ralph and Alice were practically senior citizens by then.

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I'm surprised Ralph didn't have any kids, he looked like he was ready to pop any minute, bhahahahhaha

Spoiler alert for them spoil sports out there! Y'all like spoiled milk, stop crying over it!

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