White Heat is as immediate and exciting as movies get.
I have only one small complaint. Edmond O'Brien's character is too unambiguous. There's little or no hint that he has mixed feelings about what he's doing--especially not in the final scene.
What did you think? Did you love it? Were you disappointed?
... Justin
I'm on a old movies roll, right now. I bought in Costco a package of "Classic Gangster films from Warner Bros." For 26 bucks you get LITTLE CEASAR, THE PUBLIC ENEMY, ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES, THE ROARING TWENTIES[my favorite so far], THE PETRIFIED FOREST and WHITE HEAT. I'm saving the best for last cause I know WHITE HEAT has that crazy "top of the world" ending but have never seen the picture in its entirety.
Now that I have tasted this classics I'm like a junkie now. Next I'm gonna buy a bunch of dvd's in Costco that says "Tough guys from the movies" There is some Cagney and Bogart in there too.
My God, that's a bargain! I'd better run to Costco and get that myself. I could watch Little Caesar, The Public Enemy and White Heat over and over. And I wouldn't mind seeing Angels with Dirty Faces again. I'm eager to see The Roaring Twenties and The Petrified Forest anyway.
Come back to this thread after you see White Heat and tell us what you think of it.
... Justin
I saw it last night. Boy, I was blown away! The best of them all. Also saw THE PETRIFIED FOREST. It was great too. I was surprised by "Petrified" cause it was very moving towards the end and Leslie Howard gives an outstanding performance as the wayward writer who makes the ultimate sacrifice for love.
Oh, back to WHITE HEAT, its the father of the modern cat and mouse game between cops and criminals. You can see the birth of survaillence and undercover work as a way to get inside the criminal underworld. Cody Jarret is Cagney at his best. He has not one redeeming quality unlike his roles in ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES and THE ROARING TWENTIES. Here Cagney is full of venom and madness. He's a mad mama's boy with a superiority complex. His revenge against Big Ed its a thing of beauty and his last job on a chemical plant is one of the most brilliant and thrilling endings ever to be put on screen. Top of the world stuff!
I also bought POINT BLANK with Lee Marvin for 7 bucks. Another one of the toughest guys ever on screen.
I made up my mind, I'm gonna get that "Tough Guys" set this weekend. Never seen any of the movies on them but if they're half as good as the gangster dvd set, it's all good!
Leslie Howard is a favorite of mine. He's especially good as Henry Higgins in Pygmalion and is hilarious in a little-known screwball comedy called The Stand-in. (The first hour is a great; the remaining half-hour stinks.) I even like him in a role he hated and that few people praise him for: Ashley Wilkes in Gone with the Wind.
White Heat is so good, I almost want to watch it again right now. I'm so glad I finally got around to it.
... Justin
It was pretty good, not great. I'd give it a 6 or 7.
It was interesting to see the technology and techniques the cops used back then.
Yeah, I like seeing the methods of law enforcement in old movies. A particularly good one for that is the FBI thriller, House on 92nd Street (1945).
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0037795/
... Justin
'White Heat' really impressed me. For one thing, I WAS surprised by the surveillance in the film, it is almost like the techniques in "The Departed" or "The Bourne Ultimatum," only almost SIXTY years earlier. Cagney still impresses me with his role as Cody Jarrett. Jarrett is a low-down person, yet at the end of the film I felt I was almost on his side.
"I know you're in there, Fagerstrom!"-Conan O'Brien
Isn't it awful how thoroughly a movie can put you on the side of a villain. But when the villain is played by Cagney, what can you do?
Other examples: Psycho: Who hasn't felt a little for Norman Bates? Strangers on a Train: When Robert Walker strains for that lighter in the gutter, who doesn't strain along with him? Double Indemnity: As much as I love Keyes (Edward G. Robinson), I'd love to see Fred MacMurray get away with it. Any episode of Columbo: We spend the first fifteen or twenty minutes with the villain before our redoubtable detective even appears.
... Justin
I think the old German film M is a perfect example. Peter Lorre has done a despicable thing, but the way it's filmed, we feel the terror he's experiencing when he's either going to be caught by other Criminals or the Authority.
It's an experiment in just that -- sympathizing with a bad person. I find the whole concept fascinating.
No. I thought that Edmond O"Brien (Fallon) was strictly dedicated to bringing Cagney(Cody Jarrett) down. Everything else was an act.
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Just saw it last night, and I was truly impressed. It was enjoyable from start to that exciting finish. I don't understand, though, why you thought that there should be any ambiguity to Pardo's character. He WAS a cop, after all, and why should he feel any remorse or doubt about taking down a merciless killer like Jarrett? Jarrett didn't behave like someone that would engender any pity from anyone, particularly a cop. Remember how he murdered that other escapee, Parker I think his name was, Big Ed's friend that tried to off him in prison? Cody didn't exactly exhibit the milk of human kindness there. To me, any feelings of remorse that Pardo would have shown would have been off for the character. His role was unambiguous, and that's how O'Brien played it.
The procedural aspects of the movie wre very interesting to me, and there was a line, close to the beginning, that I thought was very well delivered, by Verna, when she says "Oh, someone always tips the cops off in your mind, it's never that cops are smart". That's a paraphrase for sure, but I thought it really did highlight how clever the cops were being. Cody Jarrett was a hard man to pin down, he was ruthless and very cunning, but the police just wore him down in the end.
Gangster movies are far from my favorites, but this was spectacular. Both exciting and heartfelt.
Jarrett didn't behave like someone that would engender any pity from anyone, particularly a cop. Remember how he murdered that other escapee, Parker I think his name was, Big Ed's friend that tried to off him in prison? Cody didn't exactly exhibit the milk of human kindness there. To me, any feelings of remorse that Pardo would have shown would have been off for the character.
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Let's face it, Parker had it coming. Parker didn't deserve any kindness.
Jarrett didn't kill anyone without cause until Pardo's identity was uncovered, causing Jarrett to loses all touch with reality. He then chooses to shoot it out with the police who have surrounded him, thus getting his entire gang needlessly killed.
When the last gang member tries to surrender, Jarret coldly shoots him in the back. Now why do that?
I can understand killing the train engineers and ordering Cotton to kill Zukie. Those were wintesses who could identify him.
To kristinaknight and joeparkson. You both make good points. Thanks for replying.
...Justin
White Heat is top-notch Cagney, it ranks up there with The Public Enemy, and 18 years after that film Cagney shows he still has all the old energy in his performance.
He also has some great one-liners - "If that battery is dead, it'll have company" - being my favourite.
It's very easy to rate this film, 10/10.
I haven't seen White Heat since I started this thread. It might be time to revisit it. I thoroughly enjoyed the movie.
...Justin Glory be, Delbert, you should eat! You're a count, for God's sake!
"What did you think? Did you love it? Were you disappointed?"
I was a little disappointed as I have been hearing 'you need to watch this film!!!!' for some time now and the film does feature 4 of my favorites (Virginia Mayo, James Cagney, Edmond O'Brein, and Steve Cochran)....so the film started to take on qualities that made it "larger than life", and being slightly dissapointed would be only natural.
"I have only one small complaint. Edmond O'Brien's character is too unambiguous."
Agree, and I included Virginia Mayo at least in a way, along with this.
As already noted in this discussion, he was a policeman doing his job (and already angry as his vacation had to wait ) but if he had exhibited some implied inner conflict it would have left the viewer with something more to muse over....
There is an expression to the effect that "men marry a woman just like mother", however IMO Verna's lack of conscience was too much like 'mother' IMO, and thought she should have displayed more conflict than she did from time to time.
Although second billed, her part may have been too small for further character developement perhaps....
Just some thoughts....:)
It's Getting Dark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGeDE3sMi9w
Hi, Xy! I'm sorry you didn't like it as much as I did. Despite my one small complaint, I thought the movie was terrific. Exciting, well-plotted and well-acted.
I've still only seen it once. I wouldn't mind watching it again.
...Justin Glory be, Delbert, you should eat! You're a count, for God's sake!
"I'm sorry you didn't like it as much as I did."
But....I probably did like it as much (it is a bit hard to understand that first part above). My dissapointment was very slight actually, is spite of the hype, as it really held up to its reputation, and I must add that doesn't happen often with movies who's reputations are as large as this one....
I did want Virginia Mayo to have a larger role in this which I think is most of the dissapointment as well and....I'm not really sure I am used to her doing dramatic rolls, this being only the second one I have seen.
Hard to express, and this isn't supposed to bash her, but while watching her in this, it seemed to me it was like I am watching her play an actress who is doing a dramatic roll instead of her being the character.
Instead of watching her character, I watched Virgina Mayo instead. (????) I don't know whatever it is, I/m sure it is just me :)
This is not to say I thought she did a bad job, but I think it is hard for me to switch gears as far as she is concerned....
"I've still only seen it once. I wouldn't mind watching it again."
Ha Ha, I taped it and have watched it a few times since it was on the other day.
I see this movie is rated above an 8 and I am hoping my new vote puts it over the top into the Top 250 (but I stopped getting excited about that a long while back)
It's Getting Dark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGeDE3sMi9w
Have you seen many Jimmy Cagney movies? I've enjoyed Angels with Dirty Faces, Public Enemy, Yankee Doodle Dandy, Footlight Parade, 13 Rue Madeleine, Each Dawn I Die and Man of a Thousand Faces. The only one I didn't like was Captain of the Clouds. I remember nothing about it, except that it bored me.
...Justin Glory be, Delbert, you should eat! You're a count, for God's sake!
No, I have only seen "Yankee Doodle Dandy" and "Man of a Thousand Faces", as an adult anyway....but he was absolutely great in those, I used to watch them over and over and....over.
Until now, I saw as many movies with him in them as with his sister....
I don't know why I have never seen much of him, some major stars I just happen to miss. I just saw my first Rita Hayworth movies within the past few years
It's Getting Dark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGeDE3sMi9w
How about Edmond O'Brien? imdb.com/name/nm0639529/filmovote I've seen a lot of those films, but in some of them he only has small roles. He's the star of at least two really good crime films besides this one: D.O.A., in which he must search for his own killer (!) and The Hitch-hiker, a tough little thriller directed by Ida Lupino.
...Justin Glory be, Delbert, you should eat! You're a count, for God's sake!
Hummm....I thought I had seen more, but the ones I know by title are
"Up Periscope"
"The Girl Can't Help It"
"The Killers"
"The Hunchback of Notre Dame" and now....
"White Heat"
I do have a copy of "The Hitch-Hiker" I taped during TCM's Ida Lupino month, but have not taken the plung as yet. I am sure I have seen him in others that I cannot identify by title however, as he seems to be someone almost like an old friend who has always been around, and it has only been somewhat lately that I have seen "The Killers" and "The Hunchback"
He did blow me away in "Hunchback", as I didn't recognize him right away....It was driving me crazy :) "Who is that???? I know who that is"
Not to mention it wouldn't be a role I would suspect to find him doing.
I did look up D.O.A, as a possible but have not seen it....it looks good though :)
It's Getting Dark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGeDE3sMi9w
It seems Margaret Wycherly (who played Cagney's mother) was mainly a stage actress. Her film roles are fairly scanty: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0943618/filmovote I've seen The Yearling and Random Harvest. I'm eager to see Forever Amber.
The director, Raoul Walsh, had a long career, but I think I've only seen one other of his movies: They Drive by Night. There are several on this list that I've been eager to see, especially the ones near the top: imdb.com/name/nm0909825/filmovote. I know Walsh best by what Jack Pickford said to him: "Your idea of light comedy is to burn down a whorehouse."
...Justin Glory be, Delbert, you should eat! You're a count, for God's sake!
Actually I was very impressed with Margaret Wycherly and couldn't wait to fix my computer to see what else she was in, and it would seem you are right about her stage career.
Sometimes when looking at some of these actors that has provided an impressive performance and find they took a 'vacation' from the stage for it, I feel a bit 'robbed' when noting that....as we are unable to pull up a Youtube video of their stage work.
As you say I don't think I have seen anything else she was in, except for "Sergeant York" taking a quick look at the titles....but her list of credits does contain titles which are on the never seen 'essentials' list.
"Keeper of the Flame" from 1942 with Katharine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy seems to me on Youtube....hummm. I say 'seems' as one movie I was watching on Youtube was missing the last part (Ladies in Retirement) but I had missed the beginning on TCM so didn't mind that much.... I did feel very badly for everyone else however as I am unsure if it is available.
"Something in the Wind" seems to be on Youtube as well, but it might provide some viewing difficulties....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiR1WiB8eP4
I do like the opening song very much however....
"Your idea of light comedy is to burn down a whorehouse." Hummmm....:)
I did have "They Drive My Night" on my re-watch list but it hasn't happened as yet.
It's Getting Dark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGeDE3sMi9w
I've watched movies on YouTube or other places—such as Internet Archive. But usually it's when I can't see a movie any other way. I recently watched two Hitchcock films that I've never been able to see before—Downhill and Waltzes from Vienna. But I would have preferred a DVD.
Actors evidently aren't thinking of posterity when they choose the stage over film. But I can understand. There's an excitement to a live performance that can't be capture in a movie.
...Justin Glory be, Delbert, you should eat! You're a count, for God's sake!
Cagney was one of the greatest. This was a cracking film. I suppose you could say that at least.Cody loved his mother!
shareNo, O'Brien's character was a professional lawman, not a social worker. Here's the deal, as I see it: the criminals in White Heat are flawed yet deeply human; they have loyalties, which they often betray; and they can love and hate. Those who enforce the law are, in bold contrast, total professionals. They show little or no emotion. Undercover man Edmond O'Brien's character's becoming Cagney's pal was a ruse. He never really liked the guy. His job was to bring him down, which he did, and with no remorse or regret. What the movie seems to be saying is that this is how it is: criminals, while human (i.e. a lot like us,--those watching it, I mean), are people with few if any redeeming redeeming qualities. We can identify with them as human beings even as we disapprove of their actions. The job of the law is just that, a job. They're all business, and their coolness, even coldness, is at times indimidating, often downright off putting; and by the end of the movie they succeed, which is triumph of justice over those who commit crimes. What makes White Heat so powerful is a lingering affection for the criminals as human beings and our inability to feel anything for the law but a grudging respect. In other words, the film toys with our emotions, causes us to think and feel about what's going on in it, the essence of a first rate film. I think it's grand, see no inconsistencies in it. It's a classic in my book.
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