MovieChat Forums > Kind Hearts and Coronets Discussion > Who killed Lionel ***possible spoiler***

Who killed Lionel ***possible spoiler***


***Possible Spoiler***

When Sibella visits Louis in prison, it's clear that she believes that Louis killes the other D'Ascoynes, and Louis know that she knows. And she hints that she can produce evidence that will prove Lionel commited suicide and Louis gets released if he in return kills Edith so that he can marry her.

I think Sibella killed Lionel.

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I think it's just as likely that Lionel killed himself. He did mention it as the only way out during his last meeting with Louis. And Louis gave himself away to Sibella in front of the fireplace, then tried to cover it up by making his "confession" sound like a joke, but of course Sibella didn't buy it, and Louis had to suspect she didn't. Louis and Sibella were involved in a sort of game of poker in which he at first bested her, knowing that Lionel had no clue about her infidelity, so I think she just continued the game by hiding his suicide note. Notice that at the trial, she never directly answers the question about whether there was such a note; she just says that the police never found one.

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I agree, Lionel did most likely commit suicide. And even if Sibella did believe Louis killed all the D'Ascoynes after the fireplace confession; what could she do to prove it?

The only remedy Louis must make is in receprocation to Sibella.

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This film is very precise in its allusions - the only uncertainty being in the ending (did Louis retrieve his memoirs before they were discovered and read by someone else?) - but its subtlety is delightful.

As clive-ihd says, Sibella knew very well that Louis had killed a number of d'Ascoignes and in the prison scene she made sure that Louis knew she knew.

But kdmagnusson is correct. Lionel undoubtebly committed suicide exactly as he told Louis. Quite possibly he was already dead before Sibella had returned from visiting Louis to tell him of their 'discovery.' That Sibella concealed the suicide note is shown by the evasiveness of her answer in the trial. Her initial reason for concealing the note might just have been revenge for Louis discarding her in favour of Edith. Possibly it was only later that she realised she might also use it to her advantage as a means of becoming duchess herself.

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[deleted]


Malice Aforethought had a similar device. A doctor poisons his wife and then takes the rap for another murder.

Anyway, I never carefully tracked the plot on this, but isn't there a large time gap between the suicide of Lionel and Louis' announcement to his new estate?

I can't quite get the feel of this. I was left feeling that Louis should have known about Lionel's death by the time he greeted the estate residents.

Any skillful plot nitpickers with something on this?

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I'm sure Louis was pretty preoccupied with preparations for taking over the estate, and Sibela, as one of the few people who knew Louis was "Chums" with Lionel, had no reason to alert Louis to the situation.

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I haven't watched in a little while, but doesn't Sibella say something like "producing a suicide note written in Lionel's own hand"? If she did say this (I don't recall at the moment), I assume that means she found a suicide note, but hid it so she could "play her hand" with Louis.

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i believe you are correct in your quote (and i saw it last night).

what's interesting is that i was certain that the fight between louis and lionel ended with lionel falling on the knife, and the scene even cut on lionel moving awkwardly after the fall. so i thought that would be the "murder" that felled louis. the suicide caught me by surprise, but i suppose a suicide note is a very convenient plot device to reverse a murder charge. had lionel actually fallen on the knife, which would have been a more compelling and morally ambiguous twist in my view, there would have been little chance of later evidence to free louis.

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I too am certain that Lionel fell on the knife he was holding. I'm not sure why this wasn't clarified more in the film, as in:

"YOU stabbed Lionel in the back - it was murder!"

"No your Grace, he came at me with a blade, we struggled, he fell to the floor, and I left him there. He must have fallen upon the knife."

I don't know why this wasn't developed further. It seemed obvious to me.

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They did make it clear. Lionel was stabbed in the chest not in the back. So, when we see Lionel on the ground with the blade under him, he was not injured. The injury occurred afterwards.




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