Band of Brothers
Be sure to check out the BAND OF BROTHERS mini-series; it covers much of the same plot, including the famous 'nuts' line.
shareBe sure to check out the BAND OF BROTHERS mini-series; it covers much of the same plot, including the famous 'nuts' line.
share'Battleground' featured 'I'Company, 3rd Battalion, 506 PIR. Band of Brothers was 'E'Company, 2nd Battalion, 506 PIR. Think they might have chewed the same dirt..
shareNope, it is the 327th Glider Regiment, evident by the clubs on their helmets (the 506th used spades).
shareYou are correct. There are also frequent mentions of gliders in the dialogue.
share"Nope, it is the 327th Glider Regiment, evident by the clubs on their helmets (the 506th used spades)."
Note further that there was no "Item" company in the 327th Glider Infantry Regiment (GIR) during the Ardennes Offensive. None. Yes, there were three battalions "organic" to the 327th GIR and wearing the clubs on their helmets. No, there was no 3rd Battalion as such.
Writer/producer Robert Pirosh obviously knew that the glider infantry regiments of U.S. Airborne divisions had originally been three-battalion National Army "leg" units which had been redesignated with only two battalions in the regimental table of organization ("A" through "D" companies in the 1st Battalion, "E" through "H" companies in the 2nd) when the airborne infantry divisions were devised.
In order to prevent this 1949 movie from drawing the jeers of veterans who could justifiably say "That was my outfit, and it wasn't like that at all!" Pirosh designated the companies considered in this movie as if their regiment did have a 3rd Battalion (companies "I" through "M") at Bastogne.
By this stage in the war, it had been found that glider infantry regiments were too "thin" with only two battalions, and the decision was made to increase each glider infantry regiment's establishment to three battalions. This was not done by raising a third battalion intrinsic to the regiment, but by "cannibalizing" one regiment to attach one of its battalions to each of two other glider infantry regiments. Thus the 327th Glider Infantry Regiment came to contain its two original 1st and 2nd Battalions and the "permanently attached" 1st Battalion of the 401st GIR.
No companies "I," "K," "L," or "M" existed in the glider infantry contingent of the 101st Airborne Division during the Ardennes Offensive. It wasn't until 6 April 1945 that a nominal 3rd Battalion of the 327th was "consolidated" with the 1st Battalion of the 401st GIR to yield companies "I" through "M" in the 327th Regiment for the first time since it had been reorganized and redesignated as the 327th Glider Infantry on 15 August 1942.
Oh good! My dog found the chainsaw!
Nice background...I've always felt for those glider troops, a sucky, dangerous job (arguably more dangerous than jumping, and IMHO, it WAS more dangerous) without the jump pay (though I do realize they did finally end up getting some sort of hazardous duty pay late in the war)or glory of the guys who rode the silk down.
shareThanks, Bjorn.
Contrary to most public opinion, the 506th, esp. Easy did NOT win the war single-handedly.
They contributed, to be sure, but there were a whole lot more that did a whole lot more.
I hope you are refering to the 17 million "soviets" (rusians, ucranians, bilorussians, letons...) that died, 7 million of whom were soldiers.
Without Stalins stance on Hitler the US and Britain would not have been able to defeat Germany or would have been willing to bear the sacrifice it entailed, after all Hitler did not consider them "natural" enemies, and was happy to share the world with them. He would keep Europe, England would keep its empire, and the US would have America for itself...
Ofcourse, in the end it would have come down to an atomic war... Would the US have developed the weapon if Hitler had defeated the Soviets??? Would the Germans have done it first???
By the way, the film is quite good and I enjoyed the pains it takes to introduce the different characters. The Ardennes ofensive was a stupid plot by a raging Hitler. Without air suport, amunittion or petrol, it could not last but a few days, after the initial surprise was over and the fog lifted.
Germany would have been eventually defeated by the Western allies just as it was in WW1, that is, without a major contribution from the Russians. But as this is all speculation, who is to say that without Western lendlease the Soviets might have been conquered by the Germans? Why else was Stalin so upset that the shipments of western food were curtailed at wars end? And as far as Hitlers plans for the English and US, it was certainly not to allow them to live in peace.
share2 points of historical accuracy
1) Russia contributed millions of men to WW1 for 3 years drain massive German resources. Remember it was 1914-18 not 1917-18.
2) D-Day was a close run thing The allies would not have been able to try again for 5 or 10 years if ever. If Germany had not spent so many men and material in the east.
Western freedom was paid for in part with massive Russian Blood.
While I agree D-Day was a close run thing, I think you're mistaken how long it would have taken to take a second crack at the continent; don't forget that 14 months later the war with Japan was over, and all those troops, sea lift, and naval forces in the PTO would have been free to move to the ETO.
shareYou're assuming that Japan would've been defeated as quickly without D-Day. If the European war had still been ongoing, the Soviets wouldn't've entered the Pacific war, and Truman might not've committed the atom bombs to the PTO.
*/\*Goonies never say die!*/\*
All the Soviets did was declare war on Japan on paper. And they waited till America had kicked Japans ass (which Russia couldn't do) to do it.
shareRead this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria
Waffles Anyone
rstory-3
http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
The Western Allies suffered 120,000 casualties in the Normandy landing. Had it been a defeat (for example, had Hitler heeded the advice of Rommel to put the Panzers nearer to the front allowing the Germans to quickly counter-attack,) the number of casualties would be much, much higher. A 250,000 casualties coupled with the failure of the invasion would cripple the Western Allies, making it more likely that the Allies would accept a truce or, in the best case, peace with honor from the point of the view of the German military. General Eisenhower for one was exasperated with the politicians' (US and British) demand for the German unconditional surrender. A disaster in Normandy might create a huge morale problem for the Western Allies, especially after the expensive but futile victory in Italy.
sharemartin-henry-1
About your point 2, its wrong, had the Allies lost that day; the southern France operation still would have taken place and the troops sitting in England would have been used on that front.
Had that operation gone wrong, then the US would have recalled the Marine division from the Pacific and used them, and rotated US Army troops to that front.
The France coast was weakly defended on the west and south, and the Germans had a major problem of troop strenght by May 44 and that was never overcome. The coastal divisions were for the most part better than 50% Russians, Poles etc and never gave a good account on defense (due in major part to a major shortage of mgs in the German Army, look at the TOE of the 700s divisions and all are using Russian, French, Polish weapons.)
The reason why Omaha was won was in large part due to the US destoryers, which because this was an Army operation; were not factored into the battle. The Destoryers were not to go in close and fire point blank range (which in many of the landings in the Pacific they had in operations); its only due to the Navy history and the commanding officers did they committ themself into a roll not plained on and it saved Omaha for the Allies.
Now look at the number of troops sitting in England still waiting on D-Day, there is more than enough to cover a major operation in southern France, if D-Day failed.
One point about the last post I will take exception with: Recalling Marines from the Pacific to fight in Europe. General Marshall has been quoted," As long as I am in charge of our armed forces, there will never be a Marine in Europe". Needless to say, there were no Marines in combat in the ETO during WWII because of this policy. Even if it had been necessary for a second cross channel assault, I doubt this would have changed. From logistics alone, it would have been easier to raise, train, and equip new replacment Army formations, than to recall, reconstitute, transfer half way across the planet, and send to a new theater Marine units from the Pacific. Differences in doctrine alone argue against this. Army/Marine differences in operations at the Gilbert Islands, Saipan, and Okinawa are documented during those battles.
shareAh, accurate to a degree, but what everyone who likes to point out Stalin's and the Soviet's fight against the Nazis forgets that Stalin had signed a non-aggression pact with them and had divided up Poland with Germany after the German invasion of Poland. That and the Soviets attempt to invade and take over Finland.
Another point is simply that Stalin is no hero or military strategist. (Think Saddam Hussein)
If he had not purged his military of many competent, dedicated senior officers in the late 1930s, his army and air force would have been much better prepared when Germany invaded in June of '41.
Another Soviet myth is the "moving" of entire factories to the East of the Urals after the invasion. Many were moved, but those factories had in fact been built there before the war and were already working or were about to go on-line when the German invasion started.
Yes, we all know (ok those have history degrees and WWII buffs) that the Russians provided the lion share of the ground combat forces, and 20 million died. However, they did not have the logistical challenge of sending millions of men, thousands of planes, tanks, trucks, jeeps, ships of all sizes, and other logistical elements from the US to not only Europe, but to nearly all parts of the globe. Something the Western Allies did to the point of it being routine by 1945.
We provided the Russians with Lend Lease. This included tanks, food, planes, radios, and tons of other equipment. True, the T-34 was better than our Sherman. But our P-39s and P-63s were flown in the Red Air Force to great effect. Defending Moscow for most of the war were Spitfires. B-25s and A-20s were used in air strikes.
As for WWI, the Tsarist forces nearly one the war 1914. But a radio intercept led to their defeat from which they never fully recovered. The Russians fought a war without industrial nor popular support. The only reason why they lasted as long as they did was the Central Powers were more concerned with France than Russia.
[deleted]
that is complete garbage. Hitler and Stalin were ALLIES. They agreed to join together and invade and divide poland.
World War Two in Europe never woudl have even occurred had Stalin not cravenly agreed to join Hitler.
Hitler eventually did attack Russia, but hat was after Stalin's alliance with Hitler had allowed Hitler to take half of Europe/
cgonzalezdelhoyo,
In actuality, Hitler knew the war was lost by around '43. He kept on fighting anyway. Had Germany not kept on fighting, the Soviets would have invaded Western Europe.
As much damage as Hitler did, he can be credited with keeping the Iron Curtain as far east as possible.
According to the history I have read Hitler believed that the western allies would fight Russia till near the end.
He firmly believed in Destiny, particularly his.
Here is a great map that shows the positions of all the units in the defense of Bastogne and the positions of the German units that opposed them.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3329/bastognebk2.jpg
You fellas might be interested in this image as well. It shows the helmet markings for each unit in the 101st and their call signs.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/344/101stsymbolsib2.gif
kalamazoo101:
Had the Germany not attack the Soviet Union, the border would be even further in the east.
I even counter-argue first:
"The Soviet Union attacking without German provocation-scenario" was invented by the Germans and especially German neonazi-movements while trying to whitewash themselves during the Cold War. There was no proof for this, and scenario was forgotten until it was then reinvented and carried by David Irving, not the most reliable historian. He was supported by Paul Carell aka Paul Karl Schmidt, former press secretary of Joachim Ribbentrop, who wrote several historical blockbusters about the Eastern Front, forgetting all the atrocities there.
Band of Brothers is the perfect companion piece for Battleground since digs much deeper on this battle of the WW2 and the men who fought it.
BTW the worst defeat the Nazi suffered wasn't the battle of the Bulge, not even Normandy. The battle that really decided the WW2 was the battle of Stalingrad where Hitler's eastern army was practically destroyed (1.5 million of axis troops were killed or captured in Stalingrad area) as a result of that Nazis couldn't recover nor to stop the the advance of the Red Army that finally entered in Berlin.
Russians did much more for the allied cause than USA folks likes to acknowledge. Actually several historians suggest the main reason why USA dropped the atomic bombs over Japan was in order to prevent a possible intervention of the Red Army in Japan since the soviets were already in Korea and Northern China, ready to invade Japan if USA couldn't make surrender Japan rapidly.
Actually if you want to discuss the US dropping the atomic bomb, you have to acknowledge that the US faced the prospect of massive casualties in an invasion of Japan. Before the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, much of the Japanese military cearly were not going to surrender, and Japanese civilians were being trained to resist the Americans to the death.
Many Americans and Japanese are alive today because of the dropping of the atomic bombs. If those bombs hadn't been dropped, many potential American and Japanese fathers and Japanese mothers would have died in the invasion fighting. I have read Japanese persons who have admitted that.
Hopefully, for your sake Argonauta1 and for ours, you will never have the responsibility that Harry Truman had. Truman was responsible for the lives of millions of American servicemen. Many thousands had already died in bitter fighting against Japanese who wouldn't surrender. People debate about how many might have died in the invasion of Japan, but its clear that the number would have been large. Kamikazes and the fighting on Okinawa indicated that many Japanese were not caving in towards the end.
And sure the Soviets sacrificed the most manpower among the allies. Most serious American historians clearly acknowledge that. That doesn't mean that the western allies were negligable.
I can see that you are another brainwashed yank, wmarkely. Of course I acknowledge that an invasion to Japan would result in a number of casualties. How many? Nobody knows. Probably not nearly as many as most "bomb" defenders suggest.
You know a country can only fight while still have resources to do it. Japan's industry was almost completely destroyed and the remain industry would be an easy target for US bombers. Japan was running out of oil, even coal. Without fuel no modern army can keep fighting. Finally Japan was running out of weapons and ammunition. The people was trained to defend Japan using sticks and knifes! c'mon! Nobody will know how long would have resisted Japan but I'm afraid not much.
Somebody said the weapons are created to be used, any weapon. The atomic bomb was supposed to be used over Germany but the war was over before the bomb could be ready. So only a battered Japan stood fighting in the side of the axis. Why to launch the bomb? As I told you it wan't necessary to launch atomic bombs over civilians to defeat a country without resources to keep fighting a long battle. Why to drop it? Well, as I pointed out a weapon has to be used, besides the militar wanted to know how destructive were really atomic bombs over populated places. None test could say it properly. Before Hiroshima and Nagasaki everything were speculations. Therefore the bomb was dropped also for mere testing purposes.
Another aspect to consider is one aforementioned. The Soviet Union was ready to invade Northern Japan and to occupy the entire Korean peninsula, China and other parts of Asia. If USA couldn't defeat Japan fast enough they would have to share Japan's spoils with the Soviet Union (as happened in Germany or Korea), dividing the country. As a matter of fact Russia invaded and still retains the Kuril Islands. Japan still consider those Islands as part of their territory.
Before the scenario of Asia turning "red" and before the possibility of seeing Japan divided, the bomb became suddenly too convenient. It allowed US forces to control Japan, to enter Korea on time to ask for their share (South Korea) and to stop or slow-down "the red menace" in the rest of Asia.
Right, they (USA) also wanted to avoid casualties amongst US troops and that's another reason why Truman decided to drop the bombs over CIVILIANS in Japan. yep, invading Japan in a traditional way could have cause the death of hundreds of thousands of SOLDIERS from both sides, albeit I think Japan would have surrendered faster than you think for the reasons above expressed.
Then the reason(S) to drop the bomb was more complex than you in your naive and chauvinist comment expressed.
Truman had many things on mind when he decided to drop the bomb. And believe me that the lifes of japaneses were NOT one of them. He had geopolitical, internal politics, economical, propaganda, etc. reasons to do it (He wanted to show to the rest of the world who had now the bigger stick and was willing to use it).
I know you are gonna disagree because well, you've been brainwahsed for decades but IMO Truman is a war criminal in the same league than any Fascist leader. To decide the death of about 125-150,000 civilians in a second (mostly kids, women, babies, elder people, INNOCENT people) it's one of the most vile, despicable and coward acts of history. Dozens of thousands more of japanese suffered the consequences of the atomic radiation the rest of their poor lifes.
Besides all the experts are agree on this: The only reason why Stalin developed his own nuclear bomb was because USA was working on one. As a result of that the cold war started, and sometimes it wasn't so cold. At least once the "end of the world as we know it" was close, really close (Cuba Missiles Crisis). If instead of Kennedy and Khrushchev, two war-mongers were ruling their respective countries (a la Bush/Putin) most likely you wouldn't be alive to post your ignorant comment.
It is well known that the "Hawks" were pushing Kennedy to nuke Cuba and the Soviet Union, they didn't know the missiles in Cuba were fully operational and armed with nuclear heads. In the other hand the Soviet "hawks" were telling Nikita Khrushchev exactly the same "let's nuke USA once and for all!". Luckyly those two men behaved like great statesmen, not like cheap bullies.
So dropping the atomic bombs also brought the Cold War that lasted for 5 decades and that is still a shadow over the world. Just recently when USA tried to interfere directly in Georgia, Putin had to remind to USA and the rest of the world that they still have enough nukes to blow out the entire planet several times. They don't even need to be precise, dropping randomly a bomb like the "Czar Bomb" over any place in USA would cause millions of casualties. Granted Russia would be destroyed as well, same whole Europe, Middle East, Far Asia... In short: any site where a US militar base it's located.
Thanks to Oppenheimer, Truman et al. The world is now a more dangerous place to live in. Because not only USA and Russia owns nukes, also China, India, Pakistan, Israel, France, UK and probably North Korea. Plus for countries like Japan, Germany, South Korea, Brazil, Italy, etc. would take from months to a couple of years to create nuclear weapons if they had to. since they have the technology and resources to do it.
Keep praising that genocide known as Harry Truman, after all ignorance is bliss.
Farewell.
It's hilarious, argonautal, that you accuse anyone else of being brainwashed. You're a tool of Soviet historical revisionism in more ways than one. But I guess you really believed it when you said ignorance is bliss.
If you actually knew your history, you'd know that Germany and Japan were also working on atomic bombs during the Second World War, (and you're so gullible if you don't think the Soviets were too) and America simply beat them to the punch - with major help from the British. "The only reason why Stalin developed his own nuclear bomb was because USA was working on one"? What a naive fool you are. Stalin knew about the possibility of nuclear weapons before Hiroshima just like Hitler and Tojo et al. He used captured German scientists, after all, to help him create his...along with stolen plans and technology from the West. Compared to a monster like Stalin, Truman was a boy scout, but let's at least give Stalin credit for being logical. If you want to dominate the world after the Second World War, you had to have nukes, so Stalin was just being practical in pursuing his goals. Even without nukes the Cold War was still an inevitability, and quite possibly it was the understanding (on BOTH sides) of the terrible power of nuclear weapons that kept World War III from happening.
You'd also know, if you actually knew what you were talking about, that at Yalta in early 1945 the Americans and British were TRYING to get Stalin to join the battle against the Japanese. After all, unlike the U.S. and Great Britain, Russia only fought on one front during the bulk of the Second World War. In fact, Russia only attacked Japan AFTER the Hiroshima bomb was dropped. And you really need to actually read the history of the Second World War in the Pacific so you'd know why an invasion of Japan was considered not only a necessity, but a potential bloodbath on the order of a Stalingrad. NOBODY fought with the insane fanaticism of the Japanese during that war. But then the Soviet historians you worship wouldn't know that, since the only Russo-Japanese battles happened after the Japanese had already witnessed that first nightmarish mushroom cloud...
And by the way, only the most pompous fools try that garbage of "all the experts agree". Any intelligent, rational person knows that "all" the "experts" never totally agree on ANYTHING that isn't an observable event.
*****
Les Luthiers spouted a veritable cornucopia of revisionism and silliness from the safety of 60 years removed from the events that boiled down to:
"...after all ignorance is bliss."
*****
Pert near the only part you got right... the level of bliss you've attained explains that pseudo-halo hovering over you.
:)
Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order
Truman stopped a genocide.
Estimated Japanese and US casualties from an invasion were about 3 million in Japan.
Since Japan was still occupying much of China, with about 20 divisions and all of Korea, and requisitioning all the food causing about 300,000 deaths/month in those places from starvation alone that is another 2 million saved by using the bomb.
Adn Japn wasnt running out of ammunition. they were actually producing more ammunition in china and korea than they were using.
japans army was also GROWING throughout all of 1945 due to mass drafts in Korea. Half of the Japanese soldiers at Okinawa were Korean.
The Soviets had no intention of invading Japan. Their intention was to take parts of China after the US exhausted itself in an invasion of Japan and not help in the least with takign Japan. we know this from the opening of Soviet records. The Soviets had not troops in the area and were focused on putting Eastern Europe under their dictators domination.
Adn the US did not make "spoils of south Korea. It set them free after 25 years of Japanse genocide in Korea