The Treasure of the Sierra Madre is a superb film, one of Bogey's best, and is an all-time classic, but it is NOT a Western, as I keep seeing it pop up on lists as one of the greatest Westerns (AFI, anyone?) Is anybody else bothered by this, or am I the only one? It's set in 1925, for Pete's sake!
"Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?" - Maximus
"Western", as a genre, has over time come to represent more than a setting. A western is now generally determined to possess a general style of mood and tension in the characters and environment. A good example would be No Country for Old Men.
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Well, maybe I'm just a purist, then.
"Do what I'm tellin' ya!" -Billie Dawn
Some people even consider _Way of the Gun_(2000) a western. I'm not sure I agree with that, but the idea is floating around out there. Well, I can see the debt it owes to _The Wild Bunch_(1969?), which many also consider a western, though it's set around 1915. For that matter, _The Wild Bunch_ owes something to _Treasure of the Sierra Madre_, especially its ending.
Ozy
And I stood where I did be; for there was no more use to run; And again I lookt with my hope gone.
"No Country for Old Men" is not a Western. It is a modern-era drama.
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No country for old men is a western now? wow no wonder theyk eep reinventing the dictionary in america if you cant even get that one right.
the "mood representation" could be applied to every genre and then we get same movie with ALL genres in it.
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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.
the characters travel from the city of tampico on east coast of mexico, west by train to durango at the base of the sierra madre range, then into the mountains via burros to do prospecting....horses are also a mode of transportation....granted, the characters don't wear six shooters or 10 gallon hats but they dine on beans, bacon, biscuits and coffee just like cowpokes did...i suppose herding a small string of pack animals isn't quite the same caliber as herding a couple hundred head of steers to market but it fits most of the western genre as i see it, including the bandits.....the story is about greed, avarice and retribution....not unlike bank robbers, murderers and the hangman.....its a classic, enjoy it for that !
shareIt's set in Mexico. Doesn't that make it a "Southern"?
I wish my hair was Emo so that it would cut itself
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So is The Magnificent Seven. What's your punto?
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Southwestern.
Or West-and-South.
A female friend of mine said she and I should watch a western some day, as I often replied to her after being asked what I'm doing: "I'm watching a western." She wondered what's great about westerns and I said 'the moral depictions'. I guess that suits for this movie.
What really typical western movie should I show her? I want it to be a good one so it can represent the western genre. I haven't seen this movie yet but from what I read it seems like there's hardly any shooting in it. Sure we need some shooting too. I very recently watched Once upon a time in the west, so that one's out of the question too. Should I show her The Outlaw Josey Wales? It has to be an entertaining movie. Maybe Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? That one's a bit of an exception since it portrays bad guys.
Do you know an entertaining, good western movie?
I don't know how it could not be a western all the elements are there.
Anthony Mann's film "Bend in the river" deals with similar themes in a different way and is no more a western than this film is.
Men would go west to seek their treasure so what is different here except instead of wes they went south to Mexico.
Depends upon what you call a "western".
A friend of mine once wrote a script for Stewart, Wayne and Fonda about three old cowboys who go out for one last adventure and at least one doesn't come back from it. Stewart and Fonda finally decided they had good strong parts, but Wayne didn't want to play an old man.
So he turned it intoa little book called LONESOME DOVE.
I remember Warner remade "Treasure" for tv with Clint Walker's Cheyenne Bodie in the Huston role and maybe Rod Taylor in the Holt role. It was even run in comic book form. What can you do?
of course it IS a Western! (And one of the best)!
the 2rd Best of all time or the 3rd (after Once upun a Time in the West). =)
and it is a Western.
There are so many variations on westerns:
Singing cowboys(Monte Hall and Herb Jeffries are still alive)
THE BEAST OF HOLLOW MOUNTAIN(Guy Madison and a dinosaur)
the spaghetti westerns
CURSE OF THE UNDREAD(campire)
OKLAHOMA
TERIYAKI WESTERN DJANGO(Miike and Tarantino)
TERROR OF TINY TOWN
OUTLANT(Sean Connery in outer space)
German westerns
Of course, some are far superior to others. A friend of mine wrote a little book called LONESOME DOVE that sold a few copies.
An excerpt from one of my film class textbooks
"Following the noir tradition of dark passions, criminality, and pessimism, Huston's films often feature groups of people undertaking dangerous enterprises at great risk; most of these endeavors end in failure." - (Wexman, 2006, p.141-142).
Sounds like Treasure of the Sierra Madre is a noir to me.
I never thought of the film as film noir before, and you are correct. I took a film class a few years back where they showed OUT OF THE PAST.
My favorite western noir are: STATIONS WEST with Dick Powell, Jane Greer and Agnes Moorehead; PURSUED with Mitchum; LUST FOR GOLD with Glenn Ford and Ida Lupino; and LITTLE BIG HORN.
LBH is a lone, lonetime favorite and I analyzed it for the first exam. Lloyd Bridges is a 7th Cavalry officer obsessed with joining Custer at the Little Big Horn. Other icons include John Ireland, Marie Windsor and Reed Hadley. For 1951 it was very violent for somebody used to Roy Rogers westerns. But then Bells of San Angelo where David Sharpe and Dale van Sickel beat Rogers to a pulp wasn't a typical Rogers film. It was point I made in my analysis when Sheb Wooley doesn't get up and sing "Purple People Eater" at the end of the movie.
Seems to me your friend is incurring in copyright infringement by using the same name as Larry McMurtry's famous novel (incidentally about three old cowboys who go out for one last adventure, and at least one... Wait a minute... Is your friend Larry McMurtry, the author of Lonesome Dove? Get out of here!
shareVery same person. That was roughly 40 years ago when I knew him.
shareI don't think of it as a western either. Oh, well.
"Your hair was darker then."
"My heart was lighter then."
In 1925 Mexico, once one left the civilization of the city (Tampico) and traveled into the heartland, it was like traveling back in time 50 years. That would put us at 1875, probably the zenith of the "western" era in the United States at least. So, the question really is " Would horse manure smell any sweeter if called by a different name?" Its all relative, western or not, and should not distract one from enjoying a really great film.
shareThis movie can be considered a western, I suppose, but the time period is still off by twenty years, if you're going with the traditional definition of a western, which are almost always 19th century.
-The Pistolero
Some people just need to get out more. Not all of us live in the concrete jungle where the only green you ever see is in your wallet.
Western films don't necessarily have to be set in 19th century US territories. West Texas circa 1980 could be a great setting for a western. Like Cormac McCarthy discovered when he wrote "No Country for Old Men".
"the best that you can do is fall in love"
I was going to say this is one of the few Westerns I really enjoyed. Maybe I enjoy it because it isn't really a Western.
shareSo was "Westworld" a western? I mean aside from the robot gunslingers...
shareWestern is quite the elastic term. Would you consider McCabe & Mrs. Miller a western?
My top 100 films http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNEyqzd1_GU&feature=fvw
I've commented on this at length on a similar discussion on the Western Board, and certainly agree with the OP. If you widen definitions of genres, then any discussion about them becomes meaningless.
"Sometimes you have to take the bull by the tail, and face the truth" - G. Marx