MovieChat Forums > Red River (1948) Discussion > John Wayne's Acting

John Wayne's Acting

posted 13 years ago by SnoozeAlarm
9 replies | jump to latest

I know that his acting in this is almost universally praised. But I think there was a huge flaw in his acting.

I think one of the coolest aspects of the film is the idea of a strong-willed but fair and straight man "losing it" due to dire circumstances. I think that we should therefore seen a more visible transition in his demeanor from stability to unstability. I think Wayne largely fails at this.

Think for example of Bogart's Fred C. Dobbs in "Sierra Madre". Or think of Bogart's Queeg in "The Caine Mutiny". Bogart clearly manifested the expected character traits of someone who is becoming unhinged. I don't think Wayne had the range to allow himself to stray so far from his sturdy, all-American, can-do character.

(I personally find Bogart's performances in both these roles flawed, but I'm certainly in the minority on that, and anyway, that's not relevant for the main point I'm trying to make here.)

As a similar example, I think that Tom Cruise did better than Wayne here, but that he also did not portray as well as it could have been done, on the transition from goof-ball to serious lawyer in "A Few Good Men".

Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!

[–] generalusgrant 13 years ago

You're faulting Wayne for not showing a character's descent into mental illness. That is not the actor's fault, it's the fault of the script. Wayne can only work with what he's got.

Treasure of Sierra Madre is a much greater film than Red River and Bogie's Dobbs is a much more nuanced character and on screen more. The Caine Mutiny is not as great of a film as Red River, but the Bogie character (again) is shown more often than Dunston.

If you doubt Wayne is an excellent and underrated actor, watch The Searchers or The Shootist.

[–] SnoozeAlarm 13 years ago

Well, not quite mental illness. Even people who are generally sane can exhibit panicky emotions in situations of distress and pressure.

How about Jimmy Stewart in Wonderful Life? I'm picturing the scenes where he's frantic about the missing money, where you can see the wild desperation in his eyes and hear it in his voice. His body language too. I'm not saying it's a perfect parallel, but it illustrates the basic point I'm making, of an actor effectively portraying a normal man in the straits of desperation, totally losing his composure. I think Stewart does a marvelous job. It's this that I find pretty much missing in Duke's performance.

Sorry, I saw The Searchers recently. Didn't change my opinion. I've seen other Duke films too. I think Wayne has a good presence, but I think he's pretty limited in his acting range.

So on the whole I disagree with your post, but I enjoyed reading it. We just have two different readings on the matter. Nothing wrong with that.

Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!

[–] dannieboy20906 11 years ago

Watch "Island in the Sky" and pay attention to the Duke's facial expression when he is convinced that they have no hope of being found.

John Wayne could show more emotions, love, lust, anger, fear, and rage between the bridge of his nose and the top of his brow than most actors I've seen. He never showed much breadth in his acting career. You would never find him playing a person of confusing sexuality with a penchant for cross-dressing, but he had enormous depth of acting ability. If you haven't seen it, maybe you aren't paying enough attention.

[–] nickm2 11 years ago

Dannie, my favorite is from 'The Searchers' (No surprise there); the part where he explodes at Brad & Martin about having found Lucy's body in the canyon-'WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO-DRAW YOU A PICTURE?! SPELL IT OUT?' Indeed without saying it or showing it, you knew whatever happened was horrible.

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

[–] Countorloc 12 years ago

Well I think he plays the character.
His pride and stubbornness can be a double edged sword, and while keeping his cool is an asset a lot of the time it can delve into something ressembling psycopathy. He is an unstoppable object, expecting people to keep their promise.
For my money it's a great menacing performance that, while mostly subdued, indicates much pain behind the eyes.

Who's the black private dick that's a sex machine to all the chicks? Shaft!

[–] oscarunger 12 years ago

i think the duke plays it perfectly, when he says hes going to kill his "son" you believe it. the ending is kind of clumsly but thats the scripts fault (ps i thought clift was outstanding as well, his first film? if so, wow)

[–] joeparkson 11 years ago

I don't think Dunson descends into mental illness. I think exhaustion, lack of sleep, etc., exaggerate negative personality traits that were already there. Remember that Dunson was already a bull headed, semi arrogant man. He takes land at gunpoint from a Mexican country squire. He leaves his sweetheart behind. In neither case does he even invite discussion. He knew that cattle with other rancher's brands were mixed in with his, and told another rancher who complained that he had neither the time nor inclination to sort them out, that he'd reimburse later. All of this before the cattle drive begins. If Dunson had been a modern day real estate developer, he wouldn't bother with zoning restrictions or building permits.

Absurdity: A Statement or belief inconsistent with my opinion.

[–] grandmabrat 10 years ago

cowboys didn't descend into mental illness. They were into survival and expansion. Cowboys were not allowed to have weaknesses. But Wayne did show emotion, he was just more subtle than some of the actors he is being compared to. The cowboy was a man who did what was necessary and sucked it up and kept on moving. I watch john wayne because he reminds me of my dad. And underneath all the sucking up and moving on was a great sweetheart of a man.

[–] nutsberryfarm 11 years ago

his narration needs a little giddy-up.

Key to winning baseball games? Pitching, fundamentals, and three run homers.-Earl Weaver