why does it say 'gay interest' in the keywords??
no idea.
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MovieChat Forums > Red River (1948) Discussion > why does it say 'gay interest' in the ke...
Like wikipedia, people can place information in various parts of the IMDb boards WITHOUT having to verify anything. It also makes for great controversy, and that gets folks coming to IMDb more and more.
There are people who actually seek to find gay subtext in EVERYTHING, and some of them have tried to say that the scene between John Ireland and Monty Clift was really about them "lusting" over one another (their movie characters that is - John Ireland was as straight as they come, and Monty was bi), and sending a "hidden message" to the audience of 1946 (made in '46, released in '48) about the characters being "gay."
There is NO truth to any of it, and just like anything else, it's a pathetic cry for attention on the part of people who look for things such as this where they simply do not exist.
Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway. John Wayne
bari2525,
You are 100% correct. Those tho make the "gay subtext" claim have obviously never owned or shot a firearm. In the shooting community it is a widely seen practice to express interest in/admiration for another shooter's firearm, and also a very common practice to let another shooter try out your firearm. in the main, shooters are very polite, thoughtful, generous people. The scene in the film where the two young men try out each other's revolvers is a scene I have personally seen played out DOZENS of times at various shooting venues, without ANY "gay subtext" whatsoever. To insist on applying any hidden meaning in this scene is projection of the most ridiculous kind.
ahope-3 -
I have been a shooter since I was 10 years old, and yes, I have been a part of the same situations you've described.
Some people are simply unhappy in life, whether gay, straight, or bi. They can't stand to live a life without drama, so where there isn't any, they "shoe-horn" it in.
It's a shame people can't enjoy life, or get the help they need so that they (and the folks around them) can.
Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway. John Wayne
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bari2525,
Thank you, sir.
ahope-3 wrote: "Those tho make the "gay subtext" claim have obviously never owned or shot a firearm. In the shooting community it is a widely seen practice to express interest in/admiration for another shooter's firearm, and also a very common practice to let another shooter try out your firearm."
Rather than ruling out the "gay subtext", your argument supports it. If you, as a gun owner, do not realize that a gun is a phallic symbol, then you should.
"Rather than ruling out the "gay subtext", your argument supports it. If you, as a gun owner, do not realize that a gun is a phallic symbol, then you should."
And you should realize you really are an idiot. No, really.
Did you notice that they all placed their pistols in their holster? That wasn't gay, was it?
shareWhy is everyone so obsessed with finding gay subtexts in classic westerns? Why not pick on other genres for a change?
Take science-fiction, 2001: A Space Odyssey, for example. There you have Dave Bowman and Frank Poole essentially stranded in space for months on end with no other company except of course for HAL. Why has no one but me seen anything queer about THAT set-up?
OK guys I don't want to get you any more riled up than you already are, but Red River is on TV right now and I'm watching it for the first time in my life. The scene discussed was very early on in the film and I have to say, knowing Clift being bi or gay, it doesn't matter to me one bit and I'm not the kind to be looking for this kind of stuff in older films but I have to say, I'm 100% honest right now but that's the way the scene comes across, very, very gay.
In some scenes when Clift stares at Ireland it looks like he is in love with him, the next thing you know I read that they had something going on in the IMDb trivia page. Once again, I'm not judging anyone, I don't care if you are gay or if you hate gays it's the way it came across on screen.
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Nitwit.
shareI'm with jimmy space miller on this one. That gun scene between Ireland and Clift was more than a tad suggestive.
I don't look for gay subtext everywhere, but when it's there, I don't go into denial like a frenzied nun.
"Listen...strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government."
the gay subtext is described in the movie "The Celluloid Closet" along with other flicks. check it out, learn something.
shareThe Celluloid Closet shows the gun scene, but conveniently omits John Ireland's decidedly heterosexual line:
"There are only two things in the world as beautiful as a good gun: A Swiss watch or a woman from anywhere. Ever had a good . . . Swiss watch?"
Actually, I think that line re-emphasizes the gay subtext, as far as that scene goes. But I think it's more comedy for the audience than anything else.
The way I see it, the gay character is Nadine Groot. He even has a woman's name. If I'm not mistaken, The Celluloid Closet points out several Walter Brennan characters in the "old prospector" vein, who exist solely to adore their younger leading men, and do the "women's work" of cooking, etc.
I agree that Groot seems gayer than Matt or the femininely named Cherry. He even quotes a show tune to Tom: "You're gettin' to be a habit with me, I guess."
shareThe keyword is a reference to the Cherry/Matthew conversation involving guns and swiss watches.
But there is a scene nobody mentions, and of course it isn't intended that way by Howard Hawks, but Groot does stare at the reclining Garth, then tells him, "The night does a funny thing to a man."
I found that strange too, as the movie contains no gay themes. I imagine it is because Mongomery Clift is one of the stars of the picture. He is a very popular icon in the gay community.
"What do you want me to do, draw a picture? Spell it out!"
I saw the movie for the first time last night and it mildly struck me as having a nuanced gay theme, and I do not normally look for gay subtexts. It's almost as gay as the relationship between Judah and Messala in Ben-Hur, but not as important to the story.
shareI've only seen the scene where Clift and Ireland are comparing their "guns". I'm surprised that some people don't see the gay subtext in the scene--it's SO obvious! Just the look that Clift gives Ireland at the beginning of it says a lot. Seeing as Clift was gay just adds to it.
shareBecause there are some freaks who think two men CANNOT be close friends without some kind of sexual context. 99 percent of the time, it's their own wishful thinking they have to try to extrapolate onto other people.
It's also incredibly sick, disgusting and twisted to pervert friendship into something it is not.
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Whether or not it was intended that scene between Garth and Cherry made me think of penises and gay sex. I missed the possible nuanced moment when Groot looked at Garth, as another poster has pointed out.
I'm a fountain of bloodshare
In the shape of a girl
Just as many posters work hard to DENY gay subtext as those who want to see it.
In this case, I think the gun scene is up in the air. The fact that both actors are remarkably handsome encourages wishful thinking, perhaps. The character of Nadine Groot is also ambiguous enough to fuel speculation.
Personally, I'd like it to be true that there is some male bonding going on with a heavy erotic undertone. I'm sure that gay men in 1948 caught it and "got" it, and rumors about Ireland's hang probably produced more than a few flutters for that part of the audience who chose to read the scene that way.
That interpretation does nothing to diminish the overall value and enjoyment of RED RIVER. The sappy ending--and Tess's peculiarities--do much more in that direction.
Well I just scrutinized the keyword list. There are 112 words or phrases listed as plot keywords, but "gay interest" is not among them.
shareWhat everyone has missed is the "beastiality interest"! It's so obvious! Think about it......all those cowboys on the trail, no women, just cows. Young Matt and his cow that he wouldn't let Dunson brand because it was HIS cow. Now don't get me started about the branding! I'm getting all giggly just thinking about it!
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