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Collingwood's Disaster


It is unfair that Thursday gets all the blame for Thursday's Disaster and Collingwood doesn't get any.

Thursday was one of the first men to be shot off his horse, And none of the passing soldiers throught to pick him up and help him back to the regimental HQ group.

How long could it take for someone in the Regimental HQ group to notice that Thursday had fallen out of the group and was no longer in any position to command the regiment as it charged toward doom?

I believe Lieutenant Smith the regimental adjutant and Sergeant Major O'Rourke should have been riding near Thursday and should have noticed his absence within seconds or minutes. I think a regimental adjutant would have authority to halt the column as it charged toward the canyon of doom and send for the second senior officer, Captain Collingwood, to take over command.

Collingwood would not have authority to change Thursday's orders on a whim, but if he found important information which Thursday had been ignorant of when forming his plans he could change those plans. Everyone in the command except Thursday knew without seeing them that the canyon walls were lined with Apaches with breech loading rifles (which tend to put the date of Fort Apache closer to the 1880s than the 1860s, not that movie makers care much about correct armament).

So why couldn't Collingwood halt the command and reconnoiter the canyon ahead and see that it was a death trap filled with Apaches with breech loading rifles and that Thursday's orders could not be followed?

But the regiment charged ahead into the canyon of death, with or without Collingwood in command. The Apaches on the slopes shot down many soldiers like sitting ducks.

Then the regiment came to what seemed like a dead end to the canyon. Everyone had apparently agreed with Thursday that the canyon led to flatter lands beyond where there was a vast dust cloud made by the Apaches -- they just believed that it was all a death trap. But apparently no one had scouted the canyon, because the regimental HQ group stopped at what looked like a dead end and turned around.

After charging back the way they had come, the regimental HG group stopped in the canyon and set their horses loose. Collingwood was probably in command by this time. Beside Collingwood, there was Sergeant Major O'Rourke, two captains, the solders who had carried the national and regimental standards and a troop guidon, and some other soldiers.

Why did they stop and dismount in the canyon? If it would have taken them X minutes to ride to the exit of the canyon, it would be safer to ride through the gauntlet for X minutes and them be out of the trap than to stay in one pace being shot at for X minutes and then still be no closer to safety. Perhaps Collingwood thought that they would all be killed before reaching the exit and it would be better to die making a stand than running like cowards.

Alternately they could have dismounted where the canyon walls seemed most climbable and climbed up the canyon walls to drive away the Apaches there and reach the top and possible temporary safety and a chance to find and fight their way back to the wagons on the ridge.

Thursday tried to get a riderless horse and asked fleeing troopers to stop and help him, but none did. This proves that Collingwood and the HG group probably could have made it back to the exit of the canyon and to Thursday's position. Some of the fleeing troopers may have stopped at the ridge and joined the soldiers at the wagon train while others may have ridden for Fort Apache or Fort Grant or for the Mexican border hoping to desert.

Captain York rode to Thursday and Thursday took York's horse and rode into the canyon and joined the little HQ group. And them mounted Apaches rode down the HQ group and wiped them out.

These mounted Apaches may have ridden into the canyon in the same direction as the regiment had, ridden over the HQ group, then turned around and rode back out of the canyon mouth to ride up to York before leaving. Or they might have ridden from the other side of the canyon, rode over the HQ group and continued down the canyon to exit where the cavalry and ridden in, and rode up to York before leaving.

The second possibility means that the cavalry turned around in the canyon despite there being a clear passage to the other side. Possibly Collingwood should have tried to continue through the canyon to the other side, and then fight through the mounted Apaches and circle around the high ground trying to rejoin York and the men on the ridge. Possibly a lot more of the command would have survived if Collignwood tried that. Did Geronimo use his reputed magical powers to move the rocks and block and unblock he canyon?

Why was Thursday allowed to become the hero of the glorious battle that propaganda made out of his disaster? Why didn't York tell a story that made Collingwood the noble hero who had died trying to prevent the disaster caused by Thursday's foolish blunders? Perhaps York believed that Collingwood had been afraid of being considered a coward if he countermanded Thursday's suicidal orders, and so led his men to death despite knowing better and thus was worse than Thursday who didn't know better?

In addition, York may have known or even witnessed far more of Thursday's civil War career than we can know. I think Thursday had some combat experience. I think that Collingwood said something about Thursday riding to (deserved or undeserved) glory. If Thursday had been half as competent as his model Custer, York would have known of occasions when Thursday reacted well to dire situations, perhaps even dire situations Thursday had put his command in.

Suppose that York was in charge of burying the dead troopers in the canyon, and noticed a significant military feature of the canyon that could have been taken advantage of by the soldiers? That would imply that Collingwood had not risen to the occasion by using that feature.

For example, there might have been a place with a slope gentle enough for cavalry to ride up the side of the canyon and chase away Apaches at the top, which would have out the cavalry in a somewhat better position. Perhaps York remembered Union or Confederate cavalry riding up a similar slope during the Civll war. If so, was Thursday and/or Collingwood also present?

And the breakdown of discipline and morale reflected badly on Captain York, the previous commander of Fort Apache, and Captain Collingwood, the previous adjutant. Dozens or hundreds of soldiers had rushed on past their dismounted company commanders in the HQ group instead of gathering around them. Troopers riding in panic out of the canyon's mouth had disregarded their (admittedly deservedly unpopular) regimental commander and ridden on past him.

The troops seemed to have had worse discipline and morale than Custer's or Fetterman's men did. Possibly the regiment lost more men from panicked troopers who deserted than from those killed by Apache bullets. So York may have decided to help build up the legend of the glorious General Thursday instead of making a counter-legend around Collingwood because he believed that he and Collingwood shared some of the responsibility for the disaster and the bad performance of the regiment. York may have vowed to do the best he could to combine the good military qualities of himself, Collingwood, and Thursday and try to avoid their worse military qualities, in order to be a good commander of the regiment.

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Someone else also believes that Thursday was no the only one responsible for the disaster. The Goofs section has this:

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Thursday's final attack was militarily foolish: an outnumbered blind charge into an hidden enemy position. Okay, Thursday is vainglorious and has no respect for the Indians, so he does it anyway. However, once inside this trap in the canyon with Apaches all around, instead of his troops riding out of the canyon they ride about half way out, then all jump off their horses to take minimal cover in a depression with enemies still surrounding them. Their horses continue to ride out, so there's no reason the troopers could have continue. Thursday was knocked off his horse and isn't part of this decision, so his vainglory can't be the reason. It made no sense militarily or otherwise, and resulted in their slaughter. The charge was dumb, but not retreating fully simply made no sense at all.

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I assumed that Collingwood was the senior officer present after Thursday was knocked off his horse, despite two other captains apparently being present. Those two captains were with Collingwood at his last stand in the canyon. Does anyone remember if Collingwood was seen giving the signal to dismount there, which would prove that he was the senior captain and in command?

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Sgt Major O'Rourke is the one I first saw standing and giving orders, I believe.

Can you fly this plane?
Surely u cant be serious
I am serious,and dont call me Shirley

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