MovieChat Forums > Nightmare Alley (1947) Discussion > Zeena and Lilith

Zeena and Lilith

posted 20 years ago by Dire_Straits
6 replies | jump to latest

After watching the film a second time, it seems obvious to me that Lilith and Zeena look a lot alike in the facial feature department.

So in a way, to me, they represent the same person. While Zeena is the trusting, compassionate, older motherly type - Lilith is almost always a matriarchial, dominating, younger untrustable type.

They are both fortune tellers in a way. as Zeena acts as one on stage and Lilith was a psychologist.

In another way, Lilith is a kind of a Stanton. This point is made by the times they say to each other, "it takes one to know one".

They are the dominating women in his life - after all he tries to trick his own wife and make her go along with him. How foolish of him... since she is a lifelong carney.

Dire_Straits
lover of all B&W; especially film-noir

[–] trippycheez 20 years ago

Yeah, and I'm fascinated by the way this movie depicts psychiatry and religion as forms of carny hucksterism! [Of course, religion doesn't take TOO hard a beating, since as his wife points out, Stanton's "spiritualism" is clearly a manipulative corruption of true Christianity. I imagine any harsher comparison would have been tough to get by the censors in those days!].

[–] Dire_Straits 20 years ago

Yes I agree. The spiritual aspects of this film reminded me so much of Burt Lancaster's "Elmer Gantry". If you haven't seen it, I would strongly suggest you do so for a nice comparison film.

Dire_Straits
Lover of all B&W; especially film-noir

[–] eddy8331 18 years ago

According to the commentary track on the recently released DVD Lilith was the first wife of Adam under Jewish Folklore who left Adam to join with Satan. I'm sure that Gresham and the screenwriters knew this bit of trivia in naming the character.

[–] frankthomas 18 years ago

Sure, she is identified with succubae, she'll get to you while you sleep so beware. In the film she is the psychologist who indeed has access to her patients'deeper secrets and therefore has power over them. And wasn't it her who sowed the seeds in Carlisle's (Powers) ears about using that knowledge to hit the big time?

[–] edlk 18 years ago

As did the writer's of _Cheers_ and _Frasier_ know both the folklore and the book/film when, for laughs in these instances, they named pyschiatrist Frasier's psychiatrist wife "Lilith." ;-)

[–] Cinemaskype 10 years ago

In the first scene of Lilith in the nightclub I thought she looked exactly like "Will & Grace's" Debra Messing. With maybe a touch of "Folgers'" "Mrs. Olsen" thrown in.