MovieChat Forums > Song of the South (1946) Discussion > Isn't Song of The South kinda anti-racis...

Isn't Song of The South kinda anti-racist while being racist?


I'm just saying, from the boy's eyes, Uncle Remus was no slave. He was a storyteller. And a very good one to. The whole racist part to me is irrelevant to me because we are taking this from the child's (name escapes me) point of view. Now, the child doesn't think of Uncle Remus as a villan or evil or bad but as a hero to look up to. He didn't look at Uncle Remus and run away cause he was scared. He befriended him. And by doing that he broke down the racial barrier between the two. Screw everything going on around the film about the owners or the camp and just focus on Remus and the kids and the stories. That's all that is relevant to the plot really. Just focus on the key parts and you'll realize that even though it is racist, it is anti-racist by African-Americans and Whites joining in unity for unity in joy.

So when I think of Song Of The South, Do I think it has racial overtones, yes. But the plot condems racism. What's the Fuss?

reply

This movie does indeed condemn racism. There is no way it is racist. Besides Remus wasn't even a slave. He was a sharecropper. Otherwise he couldn't have left for Atlanta.

reply

Correct. Uncle Remus is not a slave in this movie and there is nothing racist about the movie at all. And it takes place after the Civil War has ended. Just because things weren't all of a sudden perfect for former slaves doesn't mean Disney had a responsibility to show how dreadfully awful everything might've been. Things had just got better and Disney wanted to focus on the positive side. The relationship between Uncle Remus and the white boy (and there is also a black boy that Uncle Remus tells stories to) shows how good things can be when two (or more) people don't look at each other as inferior because they are of a different color.

reply

I agree completely. Not racist. Unrealistic- yes. But, not racist. As a matter of fact, Uncle Remus and the Hattie McDaniel character are the most endearing (live action) characters in the movie. The white parents are uptight and overbearing. No wonder he runs off to Uncle Remus. AND, if it's so racist, why is it so widely available in Europe and Japan? Does Disney think that American audiences are too stupid to understand the film is a product of its time? Hell, it even had a theatrical re-release in the US in the mid 80's? Is Disney saying that America was a land of racism only 20 years ago and now we are completely enlightened? As for the money issue, ummmm, doesn't Disney release a new batch of Disney Treasures DVDs every Christmas? Those certainly can't be big moneymakers, although I've certainly purchased my share of them, and some of those shorts have true racist elements. Funny thing: I had the Song of the South soundtrack on record when I was kid in the 80's and it helped me develop a taste for black gospel music. Disney executives- get real.

"Visions are worth fighting for. Why spend your life making someone else's dreams?"

reply

From what I recall they withdrew it to avoid Bad Press against them. Disney to an understandable degree did not want the attention of a fight iwth the NAACP would bring

Use Spoiler Tags! [spoiler]Why So Serious!?[/spoiler]

reply

Exactly...Disney is too be blamed for giving in, but the true villains in this instance are the NAACP. The real problem they have with the movie is specifically its good message. The idea that any black person could have possibly been happy anywhere remotely close to the Antebellum South is an idea they censor unscrupulously.

The NAACP unfortunately isn't really interested in racial harmony OR black cultural understanding...if they were, they'd be behind this movie 150%. Instead they just want to keep the hate flowing...

reply

[deleted]

And themselves In.business!

reply

Also, the much dreaded completely unthinkable scene(makes liberals physically ill) in which Uncle Remus gives unsolicited advice, and is rebuked by the Grandmother is no different than a white employee would have been talked to at that time period by a monied, landed woman.

reply


Wow, Im replying to acomment made on 2007 but yeah, i totally agree with you. It's a beautiful movie.
-----
English is not my first language, sorry :)

reply

How is it racist in the first place? Is it because there are plantations in the film? People had plantations in real life. The sory itself is really the story of a little boy and a slave escaping into a fanasy world because the world around both of them is unpleasant.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

I don't want to be rude, but points of view like this one is the REASON this movie should be banned.

Many former slaves neither asked nor wanted to stay on plantations because conditions were better, but because they had NO CHOICE. Sharecropping essentially became a legal form of slavery. Many former slave owners CHARGED their former slaves to stay on the land that was essentially their home. Even after slavery was legally ended many were forced to work for their freedom. Not only that but if you had grown up on a single plantation, could not read, had no skills besides house work and/or field work, what other option did you really have?

So many former slaves did not stay on plantations because the lives they had previously been living were pleasant. Its because Jim Crow laws and other extremely oppressive laws and regulations made it nearly impossible for a former slave to work their way up to anything more.

Showing this movie to children concerns me because it can create the idea(s) that you have about the antibellum south. There were NO "good" slave owners. You cannot own a person and claim to be giving them a good life. Sorry doesn't work like that. BUT the image this movie creates is the one you expressed above. That former slaves were happy where they were, that white slave owners really weren't that bad. Its these false images that are extremely difficult to break once they have been set and created.

Now for adults to view and discuss thats a different story. I think in a media class or in a history class this movie is great to examine how honesty in history and the idea of respect can be explored. But to have this be the first, or for some children the ONLY exposure to what life was like after the Civil War in the south is dangerous.

reply

no work of art should be banned. ever. no matter how much it offends you.

-------------------------
"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch

reply

I agree

reply

There were NO "good" slave owners
And it is this kind of simplistic Black and White worldview that need to be wiped out.

If I was in the South pre-cival war, and was wealthy enough, I'd buy slaves but not treat them as slaves in order to keep them from falling into worse hands. You shouldn't make decisions based on how the world should be, but on how it is.

"When the chips are down... these Civilized people... will Eat each Other"

reply

Irb5 is the same nincompoop who claims to be a social studies teacher, yet has used the word "antebellum" to describe the period during and after the Civil War. No wonder kids are getting such a lousy (yet very PC) education today.

reply

[deleted]

I don't suppose you were actually there.So how do you know what it was like?

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

Those who object to this film do so, in large measure, because the film romanticizes the past by showing it as a happy time. Happy for whom? Certainly not the black people who would have to slowly work their way out of slavery...a struggle that is still in progress. However, one has to view this film in relation to the period in which it was made and with that in mind, it is part of an evolution. Today, perhaps, it would be possible to tell the story more accurately in keeping with our contemporary knowledge. What we know, and we've known all along, is that when people mix, even when there are cultural restrictions, bonds develop. This film tries to tell the story of such a bond. That is the strength of the film and why it, no doubt, turned a few heads in its day. I suspect the moment when the little boy reaches for the hand of Uncle Remus it had to be edited for some audiences...maybe. It's a powerful moment and one which is loaded with symbolism for and audience of 1946 and one for an audience of today. Racism is alive and well and not past and this film reflects some of that past.

reply

I have heard this movie isnt being banned because of its slavery issues. It is being banned for its stereotypical views of how the black men spoke " fo' sho" "the whole united states o georgia" etc... and for having an ACTUAL small figure made of tar called "tar baby"....

reply

The movie is based on a book (Joel Chandler Harris's Uncle Remus, 1880). The Brer Rabbit stories Uncle Remus tells are authentic African folktales collected from negroes in Georgia. Uncle Remus talks like that because Harris wrote the stories in the dialect in which heard them.
'Brer Rabbit and the tar baby' is an African tale, so the idea that the tar baby 'represents' a negro (an idea that only a racist would come up with) is patently ridiculous.

reply

There were definitely some racist attitudes in Hollywood back then. But this wasn't an example of that. Nor were the original stories. If people can't accept that this is literally how poor, uneducated former slaves TALKED at the time, because that is how they had LEARNED to talk, due to their environment and limited resources, then they're just being delusional.

Hell, as a linguistics and language major, there are still poor people today, black AND white, who talk with a very uneducated manor, with very poor grammar. Whether it's "stereotypical" or not, is besides the point. The point is that it happened, it existed, and still does. The only major difference is, back then, former slaves didn't have a whole lot of choice or options to get better educated, and thus speak "better" English. Whereas people living today, especially with the existence of the internet, absolutely have zero excuse.

reply

Thanks for the back-up :)
It pisses me off when people cry "offensive" and suddenly everyone gets hysterical and people tear the so called offensive thing (which 99% of the time, really, genuinely isn't) off the shelves which prevents people who enjoy the movie (you know people with brains instead of the Ku Klux Klan some people think we are)
An example?
Gone With The Wind.
This is one of the greatest films ever made (if anyone complains about the length I'll stuff a ball gag in your mouth) as well as a personal favourite of mine. Despite this being a transparently PERIOD film, I really can't stress this enough a PERIOD film. People still cry that's it was racist to portray black people living in the South as slaves Pre-Civil War.
No doubt if they hadn't shown the black people people would cry that it's racist not to show any black people
If they had shown black people as free and unoppressed Pre-Civil War, to be frank *I* would offended as this is historically inaccurate and far more offensive than showing the situation black people were trapped in.
A lot of people who've tried to argue this with me often quote when Scarlett slaps Butterfly McQueen's character across the face.
Besides the fact that Scarlett slaps Suellen (her own sister) across the face is completely ignored.
When Scarlett slaps Prissy, Scarlett is trying to help a possibly dying Melly deliver her child in a city that's being ATTACKED by people who could easily rape and/or kill them. Now Scarlett's keeping her wits together (barely) and after Prissy starts to get hysterical about not knowing anything about childbirth. Under those circumstances I would have slapped them, regardless who they were.
Not to mention that after Scarlett sends Prissy to get the doctor, the next scene we see her in. Prissy's dawdling down the street, singing to herself and trailing a stick against the fence.
I'm suprised Scarlett managed to keep it down to one slap.
I never saw this moments as a commentary on Prissy's race, rather her frankly useless character.



No day but today - RENT
R.I.P Ianto Jones. Taken before his time.

reply

There are disney things which are a hell of a lot closer to being racist than Song of The South

1. The Crows in Dumbo

2. Peter Pan, "What makes the red man red?"

3. Aladdin, "It's barbaric, but hey it's home."

4. Pocahontas The song Savages. Plus the way they actually show them treat the Indians.

Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical for them to show this stuff but hide song of the south?

reply

1 - 3 was okay but for God's sake will people drop "Savages" as being racist, yes the lyrics that Radcliffe and his men sing about the Native Americans ARE racist. But that is the entire POINT of the song, and the fact that the Native Americans ALSO sing about how evil and soulless white people are is completely ignored.

No day but today - RENT
R.I.P Ianto Jones. Taken before his time.

reply

Your examples are fine...the problem is that the NAACP could care less about the plight of anyone not specifically keeping them in power (so blacks)

So the Dumbo crows might apply but the rest just aren't getting the flack.

Disney isn't sitting on this movie for ANY moral reason...they're doing it to appease the most violently vocal group on the planet...the NAACP

reply

Magerk4, who are the "they" you're speaking of? Do you not realize that seperating people as you're doing through speech shows how little we really have progressed.

The issue with the movie is not that it has slaves (former slaves) and white plantation owners in the same movie interacting. The issue is the GROSS misrepresentation of history. If you as an adult you cannot see the distinction, I worry about children also not being able to make the distinction.

Think about it, you're a 12 year old in 7th grade. Really this is the first time most kids actually learn about the Civil War in any detail. Your ONLY prior knowledge about slavery and the post slavery south are the images of SOTS. Now as a kid, you're thinking well thats not right, Johnny's grandma should be nicer to Uncle Remus. But in truth the situation isn't THAT bad. Uncle Remus had an arguement with is employer, he's just going to Atlanta to get a new job. So then as an adult you get the opinon of "shouldn't 'they' just get over it, it wasn't THAT bad, and look after the Civil War they were free. Its been 200 years get over it". When in reality being "free" didn't even come close to "equal". It wasn't until only 50 years ago that race relations really made any strides in the United States.

reply

WOOOOOOOOOOOO I love black people! But OMG sometime i dont. am i racist? sure... but arent we all??? Hmm HHHMMM???

reply

Man, some of the posts in this thread are so absurd. It's like just because this film has white people and black people interacting it's all of a sudden completely unproblematic. This movie wasn't made in the 1600s: people of other races inhabiting the same space in fiction isn't revolutionary in 1946. It would be revolutionary if this movie actually tackled the issues of equal representation and historical context that it glosses over.

No signature. Nope nope.

reply

In large part, this film is racist because of how the black people are portrayed. Their eyes get MIGHTY big when they talk!

Ere this night does wane, you will drink the black sperm of my vengeance!

reply

"In large part, this film is racist because of how the black people are portrayed. Their eyes get MIGHTY big when they talk!"

...you mean like they do in 'Big Mama's House', 'Nutty Professor' or any of the Tyler Perry movies, but I guess it's not "racist then, huh!?



Check out my blog: http://briantheoldmovieguy.blogspot.com

reply

[deleted]

There will always be people in the world that will nitpick something to death and take something insignificant and blow it way out of proportion because of something they don't like. I just don't understand why a great movie has been banned just because a group of people whine about an inaccurate portrayal. Anyone with half a brain can see that. But what they, and others seem to forget is that it's a kid movie. Not only a kid movie but a DISNEY movie. Would you rather your child watch this movie that, while it does have a misguided view of the south post-slavery, does try to teach a child morals and that people of different skin colors can be friendly towards each other? Or, would you rather your child see a movie, children or otherwise, that portrays a more realistic view of the post-slavery south that shows some violence? Honestly, I'd always choose the former over the latter.

If you think about it, When has Disney really portrayed accuracy in anything? Yes they do try, but the things they think parents don't want their children watching is what gets changed to a more kid-friendly version. If it's a bit fabricated, will it really hurt the child? Especially as some earlier poster pointed out, around middle school is when children begin to learn about what really went on during slavery and after. Yes, it would be confusing when they're used to seeing something as portrayed by Disney and then what actually happened, but it's the parents responsibility to inform the child of why Disney would "lie" about something like this.

It's not like that's the only thing Disney fabricates. Look at all their Princess movies. In each Princess movie, most of the Princesses, with a few exceptions, want to be with a man and they want it to be for love. The love of a man is the only thing they need to have a happily ever after. Or so that's how it appears. But we should (keyword should) know that love isn't the only thing that one needs to be happy and love isn't the only thing to keep a relationship together. It takes much more than that. But we've been spoon-fed this "love only" idea our entire lives since childhood, so all we need to do is wait for Prince Charming to sweep us off our feet and ride into the sunset. With the boys, well, Aladdin is the first Disney Princess movie to show from a male POV and it kind of gives the wrong impression saying it's okay to tell lies because as long as the girl loves you, you'll always be forgiven. Now I can't speak for any man and say that that's the message they took away from the film, but it makes you wonder if any did.

It's just like the people that complain that it was Rapunzel's hair in Tangled that broke their suspended belief because it didn't look realistic enough. They said it looks blobbed together because they couldn't see any strands parting it. Well, it's like that for other Disney Princess movies. They only add strands when they feel it's necessary but the rest of the time it appears "like a blob" because nothing's separating it. Honestly, if they want to complain about something not looking realistic they should have gone with the part near the end of the movie when Flynn is stabbed by Mother Gothel. When she removes the dagger, there's no blood stain from where he's stabbed and there certainly isn't any blood on the dagger. I know, Disney kid movie so they're not going to show that, but at least they could have made the action more convincing.

Or it's like when the people complain that Aladdin wasn't realistic because of the outfits Jasmine wore baring her midriff and her top looked like a bra and that's not how people dressed back then. Yeah, I think we all know that. But like I said before, it's Disney! They're not always going to accurately portray something. Another example is The Princess and the Frog. It takes place in the 1940s, or I assume it does. Not just the 1940s, but New Orleans in the 1940s. It's way after slavery is abolished, but do you really think Tiana, a black girl from the lower class and Charlotte, a white girl from the upper class would really be best friends? I admit it's a sweet sentiment that they are but the reality is a friendship like that would most likely never be back then. Do blacks/African-American/Afro-Americans try to demonize Disney for this? No, because they're happy with the fact that Disney finally made a black princess which hey, is a good thing to be happy about. But if we're looking at it from an accurate/realistic stand point, then for the sake of argument, the black audience should not like PatF because of the friendship inaccuracy the way they demonize SotS for painting an unrealistic view of the post-slavery south.

------------
The internet is my only escape to reality in Arcata.

reply

The problem here, again, is that the black people are portrayed in hurtful stereotypical ways. The way they use their eyes is the biggest part of it. Watch the way black people tend to be portrayed in most old films: eyes held wide all the time, stupid expressions on their faces. That was the stereotype of the day. Even modern actors who do stuff like this — portraying characters who proclaim with every gesture, "I don't need no brain, dog! I am buh-lack!" — are embodying negative racial stereotypes and should be ashamed of themselves.

But I'd also like to dispute your contention that this is a great movie. It really isn't. Even if you ignore the racist stereotypes as a product of their time, the thing that really sinks this movie is the clichéd story elements that are just in there to make the movie stupid. The mother who Doesn't Understand, in capital letters because it's such an overused convention. Oh, woe are the poor children, because the parent Doesn't Understand! Why doesn't she understand? Not because of any genuine motivation, but because a hack screenwriter thought those were the rules, and why should he question the rules? He's not an intelligent man, after all.
"Uncle Remus, your stories give my boy hope in this difficult time when his father and I are getting divorced. Because this movie has to be excruciatingly conventional, I'm going to Misunderstand and forbid you to tell my boy any more of your stories."
"Yes'm."
The pointlessness of this convention is only highlighted by the mother's sudden, unexplained decision near the end that she will not Misunderstand anymore. Why does she just stop Misunderstanding out of the blue? Because it was a stupid plot point to begin with, and the rules say the authority figure who Doesn't Understand must Learn the Error of His/Her Ways, in capitals again. Because for hack writers like these, the boy's struggle with his parents' divorce isn't enough conflict; there has to be more conflict, and it has to be as painfully conventional as possible. We need people whose actions are clear-cut wrong, because we can't have moral complexity, now can we? Mother needs to be in the wrong. What if the parents were getting a divorce and nobody misunderstood? What if we had to deal with the reality that parents sometimes get divorced and nobody is in the wrong? What if the movie centered on the boy's personal growth in the face of an upsetting divorce rather than on some big injustice by his mother against him? We can't have a movie like that, now can we? That might actually be (gasp) a good movie!

Ere this night does wane, you will drink the black sperm of my vengeance!

reply

[deleted]

The black organisations always plays the victims card, it seems they are ashamed of there own history. But i guess its there problem not ours.

reply

Here's hoping that Disney continues the unofficial ban. Thank you Disney.

reply

I have a pristine copy from Ebay. Disney may not have released it since they made Splash Mountain, but it's ridiculously easy to purchase. Shame too, since it's a great film. Where else would one have learned Gullah folklore?

-------------------------
"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch

reply

On the contrary, it's racist in those films, too. These particular black people are creating so-called "comedy" by embodying ugly negative stereotypes about black people. They're a bunch of Stepin Fetchits and should be ashamed of themselves.

Ere this night does wane, you will drink the black sperm of my vengeance!

reply

[deleted]

Don't assume that everyone likes Tyler Perry movies. I think his films are pretty mediocre.

reply

[deleted]

You can't glorify slavery, if the film is not set in the time of slavery. Case closed. Next case. What needs to be done is to show this film again under certain conditions, where a genuine dialogue could be held over it.

I am old, and remember it well, and frankly I find rap music and the Madea movies more offensive.

reply

This movie wasn't made to be a history lesson or to "tackle issues", and watching it doesn't need to be accompanied by a "genuine dialogue". It's just a simple story about a nice old black man, who is not a slave, who befriends two white kids. Disney are wimps to have given in to all the imbeciles who have made it into a PC BFD. And if you look around, you can find a copy easily. I got one from Japan. I've shown it to all the kids I know, without burdening them with a bunch of specious commentary, and so far none have shown any KKK tendencies.

reply

9.999 times out of 10, people I talk to who think this movie is "racist" have never actually seen the film. They've just heard rumors that it's "racist" and decide to believe them without taking the time to watch the movie and decide for themselves.

It's on YouTube people. Watch it and form your own opinion instead of just blindly believing what other people (who themselves have probably never seen the film in it's entirety) say.

reply