I Am the Immaculate Conception
Why was everyone so aghast when Bernadette said the Lady said that?
Is it blasphemy?
I want an answer to this question.
MovieChat Forums > The Song of Bernadette Discussion > I Am the Immaculate Conception
I'm not a Catholic but I don't see how it was so wrong. The Immaculate Conception refers to the belief that the Virgin Mary was preserved free from sin from the moment of conception. This condition would apply only to her and her son Jesus, no one else. It seems like a way to identify who she is without saying her name. Perhaps it is somehow grammatically wrong and loses something in translation from French but I don't see the problem.
shareDid God actually have sexual intercourse with Mary though? The moment of conception must have been traumatic.
sharePart 1
That's complicated and depends on your religious tradition if any. It's a long answer but here it is.
If you are Atheist: None of it ever happened.
If you are Satanist: God knows what they believe.
If you are Jewish: Jesus was conceived when Mary had sex either with Joseph or some other man before her marriage to Joseph. Jesus was a wise teacher but not a god or divine.
If you are Muslim: I don't want to give the wrong answer and upset any Muslims, but they definitely have different beliefs about Mary and Jesus.
If you are Latter Day Saints/Mormon: YES! God was once a human being but by being a Very Good Boy, was elevated to being God and given his own planet. He had sex with the Virgin Mary to conceive Jesus Christ. Jesus also followed the rules and was given the planet Earth as His own. Faithful male members of that church may also become gods and receive their own planet by following the rules. Unless they have changed this doctrine, I think I have this right. Mormons greatly promote married life and I don't think they have an actual doctrine that Jesus was married and fathered children but some are open to the possibility which is very frowned upon if not outright rejected by Protestants and Catholics.
If you are almost any branch of Protestant: Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived. God managed this without physical intercourse with Mary. Mary married Joseph and remained a virgin until Jesus was born. She and Joseph then had at least six children who were half brothers and sisters of Jesus: the Bible names James, Joses, Judas, and Simon, and at least two sisters not named in the Bible.
If you are Catholic: Mary was born a virgin, lived a virgin the rest of her life, died a virgin, and was not buried but Assumed into Heaven. I think Protestants assume she was buried but no one knows where. The children mentioned as Jesus' brothers and sisters are assumed to be cousins or other relatives.
Part 2
If a Catholic says anything other than that Mary was a perpetual virgin, they are a heretic and in BIG TROUBLE. It is an Infallible of the Roman Catholic Church. In past times, heretics were burned at the stake. Nowadays I think the most they can legally do is excommunicate them. Protestants and Mormons can also be excommunicated for different reasons.
Bonus answers: When Jesus was on the cross He commended his mother Mary to the care of his disciple John. This is not one of His named brothers and as far as anyone knows not a relative, and sort of bolsters Catholic doctrine because if Mary had four sons why would one of them not watch over her?
The Catholic church does not officially recognize the Shroud of Turin as the authentic burial cloth of Jesus Christ, but I heard that the blood on it has been identified as male and human and what's more the individual had only 23 chromosomes! This was a person with ONLY A MOTHER, NO DNA FROM THE FATHER! If that doesn't say Divine Intervention I don't know what does!
The religious tradition in which I was raised (a variation of Protestantism) teaches that the Virgin Mary was a real person who was the mother of Jesus. She entered into the Spiritual World and does not make personal appearances either there or on Earth as she would have no peace. I believe the events at Lourdes and Fatima are genuine and inexplicable. I have watched movies based on them, particularly The Song of Bernadette, both alone and with my mom a number of times. My mom would cry at the end although her church taught that the Virgin Mary never appeared. I can't explain the events or my mom being so touched by this movie. I believe this is a great movie.
Okay, thanks, that lays out it very clearly. I converted to Mormonism for a few years in my youth, and I know their theology well. So yes, the Dan Brown theories that Jesus was married fit well with Mormonism. I was taught that every man must marry. So there is a general assumption among Mormons that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. But I pressed the issue and it's not official.
Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet but nothing more. I believe myself as an atheist, that Jesus was a Jewish reformer against the legalism of the Jewish Pharisees.
Still, I must believe that if Mary actually conceived God's son, then the moment of his conception must have at least been ecstatic, much like Bernini's "Ecstasy of Saint Theresa" which is considered an allegory for sexual orgasm.
I'd be interested if there is any church doctrine on the actual conception of Jesus. Much is made of the annunciation, that the Virgin Mary was GOING to conceive, but as far as I know that never specified WHEN--it could have been some time later.
shareThe Catholic Church had made the Immaculate Conception dogma official only a few years before. Bernadette, an illiterate peasant girl, had never heard the words before and didn't know what they meant. When she relayed the message to Fr. Peyramale, he was shaken because, as he wrote to the Bishop: "She could never have invented this..."
shareWell, it's been years since I've seen this movie. But my reaction at the time was that people viewed even uttering the words "I am the Immaculate Conception" as blasphemous. They seemed to believe some woman was going around making this claim, and it was if they wanted to find her and string her up. Or they believed Bernadette herself was guilty of blasphemy.
As a non-Catholic, I had never heard this term until I saw the movie.
Thanks! I had never heard this and assumed the doctrine was always part of Catholicism and Bernadette must have heard the phrase somewhere. Many people wrongly believe Immaculate Conception refers to virgin birth and I only recently heard that it refers to the Virgin Mary being preserved free from sin from conception.
If you like you can read what I wrote above and see if I have the Catholic part right.