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The Significance of the Picture in the Bar


Does the picture in the bar have any significance to the movie? I believe it does. The mindset portrayed by the picture at the beginning of the movie is that of the main character “Carter” was angry and frustrated by the fact that his woman left town and moved. (Later in the movie she would make an appearance coming out of a carriage in the middle of the mountain pass, she being just married.)

But what if the picture was not meant for that purpose? What if the words spoken about that picture had another meaning?

Let’s look at the words said about the picture, in the order that they were spoken:

1)“That guy’s awful slow getting there.”
2)“I feel sorry for him. Always in reach and never able to do anything about it.”
3)“I got a feeling she could do better.”
4)“Ain’t that guy got there yet?”
5)“Holy cow, now I'm gonna have to start all over again.”

Looking at those quotes, you can come to the conclusion that they are talking about the woman in the painting as just a woman, but I believe that the woman is actually used to symbolize something other than a woman. My belief is that the woman was used to symbolize “Power” and the guy is meant to symbolize “Man (Mankind).” That would then make the quotes give a foretelling of the events that will take place in the movie.

Starting off with the first quote, “That guy’s awful slow getting there.”
With the belief that the guy is meant to be “Man (Mankind)” and woman as “Power”, the Townspeople would be the “guy” the first quote was talking about. When the news that Larry Kinkaid was murdered was brought to the Townspeople, they wanted justice for his murder. Though they were quick to gather and talk of taking justice. None of them had the power to make the mob legal, where it wouldn’t be considered a Lynch Mob. As they debated, they slowly inched closer to how they would get the “power” to be able to bring “justice.” Seeing that the Sheriff was out of town, they went to the judge, as they didn’t want to discuss it with the Deputy Sheriff. The judge brought them nowhere, keeping them on this slow walk to gain power. But when the Deputy Sheriff found out about the mob, he went out there and illegally deputized the mob, a power only granted to the Sheriff. After they finally reached “her” and got their “power.” They went on to find those responsible of Kinkaid’s murder. Moving us to the next two quotes.

The next two quotes work together, as each quote takes one side of the argument that later arises. Looking at the first of these two quotes, “I feel sorry for him. Always in reach and never able to do anything about it,” instead of the “guy” being referred to as the Townspeople again, this time the “guy” refers to “Gil Carter” and those who shared the minority view about the hanging that the majority wanted. This quote, as well as the other one, foretells of how the three people found (Poncho and the two others) in the mountain pass should be treated. The first quote being Carter and those who shared his view were against the hanging. They were in reach of the situation at hand, but were unable to do anything about it. They had to watch, much like the man in the painting, from the front lines as the majority ruled to hang the three people found.

Which brings us to the second of those two quotes, “I got a feeling she could do better,” meaning that “power” could be in better hands. The majority were abusing the power that they were illegally granted by wanting to hang those who they thought were responsible for the murder of Kinkaid. They were abusing “power” much like a husband who abuses his wife, those who know about it feeling sorry that they can’t do anything about it and knowing that the wife could do much better, could find a much better man, one who respects her and doesn’t abuse her. Then as the hanging came ever so near, the majority soon getting what they desire. Bringing the fourth quote into play.

“Ain’t that guy got there yet?”
That “guy” they refer to in this case is the Sheriff; the one who should actually be in charge, not Major Tetley, who is prying off the emotions of the majority. There is that wait, hoping the Sheriff will show up soon. Hoping that he would break up this lynch mob before the mob kills three people who the minority believes is innocent. But the Sheriff didn’t get there in time, and the three people were hanged just before the sunrise. Ensuring that their justice was done before the Sheriff could have any say.

Which brings us to the final, fifth quote, “Holy cow, now I'm gonna have to start all over again”, this quote giving the other four quotes a double meaning. The first being what I already stated and now a second, new meaning to the four other quotes, bringing it to reference the real world instead of just the events of the movie. It speaks about how the abuse of “power” happens over and over again, in many situations. And people have to go through this cycle all over again. There will be those who watch, unable to stop corrupt people from slowly inching forward and at one point achieving power, and those who feel sadness as they have knowledge that “power” could be in much better hands. Then finally, that waiting, wondering when true justice, true power will rid of the abuse of the “power”.

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tldr

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I had to look up "tldr" ........(too long don't read) but it fits.

Its possible, but it reminds me of either dream analysis or tea leaf readings.

Great movie. The colonel is an *beep* His son will either suicide or end up joining a cult.

T L T R. yep!

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It's just a picture in the bar, just like the door swinging open at the end of the movie is just a door swinging open.

My personal opinion.

~~
Jim Hutton: talented gorgeous hot hunk; adorable as ElleryQueen; SEXIEST ACTOR EVER

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In the book the author spends a good deal of time describing the picture. I read a review on amazon that said: "The author, at one point in the book, took well over a page describing 3 pictures in the wall. I thought that since he was describing them so much, they would have some significance in the story, or maybe be important at the end, but they weren't."

He missed it, as did some of you fellas. :-)

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[deleted]

There's more to the movie than the picture. But the picture does mean something. It meant something to the author to where he went to great lengths to describe and address it, and it meant enough to the filmmakers that it got the attention it did.

So just because you don't care, or possibly understand enough to care, doesn't mean that nobody else does.

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[deleted]

Well, you sure dedicated time to "that picture" yourself, by insisting to random people that it wasn't important.

In the book, the painting was called Woman with Parrot, but Canby called it "The Bitching Hour."

I find that to be prophetic, now. ;-)

To anyone else interested, it was a ritual, Gil always taking the side of the woman with the parrot, and Canby always defending the man. Canby could deliver quite a lecture on the mean nature of the woman with the parrot.

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MrsElleryQueen1976 said:

It's just a picture in the bar, just like the door swinging open at the end of the movie is just a door swinging open.


And now you've just dedicated even more attention to the subject by coming back and deleting your other posts, that absolutely stated that nobody else should pay attention to the painting. Except this one, which I'm guessing is just a matter of time.

And you said you were done here.


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You don't know Robert Parker's Spenser until you know his love of literature.
You don't know Rex Stout's great detective Nero Wolfe until you
know that he's a gourmet and that he spends certain hours every afternoon
tending his orchids.

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UPDATE: my opinion hasn't changed.

The pic in the bar is just a pic in the bar.

The door swinging open was probably a mistake made by the filmmakers.

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen 🎇

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This is only a vague memory but I seem to recall a Lutheran school sanctioned trip to the movies to see some Western I do not recall at all. What I do remember is there was a picture of a topless woman behind the bar which they displayed lavishly. I was totally surprised and hoped they would stay with that shot as much as possible, haha.

I'm not a woman much less Deanna Durbin, but the old-time glam-shot appeals to me.

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~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen = 

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I never really thought about the picture after that scene ended when I watched this, but I think your analysis is really illuminating. Whether people agree with you or disagree with you doesn't matter, I think the next time any of us watch this movie we should keep it in mind.

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Spoilers ahead.





While your analysis makes sense, and I wouldn't necessarily say that I think it is wrong, maybe it just goes with the theme of the movie/book of speaking/acting without reason. They are just making guesses about the painting, intelligent ones or not they cannot be sure, as is the case with whether or not Kinkaide is dead and whether those being judged later on are guilty or not.

As well as increasing the tension in the first half of the movie, the fight near the start also mirrors these themes; Gil is reacting with violence to his suspicions, which is then excused by his friend for being the wrong way of doing things even if if the both the doubt and the violence are much less than later in the movie. The provocation of the fight matches it too, there is very little reason to suspect Gil or Art let alone imply out loud that they might be guilty.

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May be right, but you should cover that spoiler.

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Patrick_Hepburn says > Does the picture in the bar have any significance to the movie?
Your assessment may be right but I can't say I agree. I have a hard time relating what you said to what I saw in the movie. I didn't read the book in which a lot of time was spent describing that picture. Perhaps there's a reason for that in the book but I can only speak to what I saw in the movie.

My feeling about the scene in the bar, which includes the conversation about the painting, is it introduces us to Carter and Croft along with what's been going on in that town. The painting is what gets the conversation rolling with the bartender and it's from that conversation much of what we know is revealed.

Carter and Croft: Carter and Croft are familiar with the town and its residents but they aren't always around so they're considered strangers. This is their first time back after a fairly long stretch away. Being a stranger is not a good thing to be because strangers are the ones likely to get blamed for any trouble. It's easier than accusing one of their own. Carter more than Croft is especially prone to trouble as it is; he's a hot head who's always looking for a fight to amuse himself. It's suggested they may be up to no good so he punches and kicks Farnley and may have really done damage if the bartender hadn't knocked him out. We get our first suspects. Maybe they are involved. At times they exchange knowing looks. Maybe that's why they went along to throw of suspicion then in the moment Carter feels guilty and tries to keep the death of innocent men off his conscience.

Entertainment: Carter and Croft have come to town to let off a little steam. They want to be amused and entertained but the town's distractions are limited especially as far as single females are concerned. Carter thinks Rose Mapen's his girl, probably because they had an intimate relationship. He expected she would be waiting for him but she left for San Francisco when the town's women ran her out. They 'shamed' her away likely through gossip and alienation. They suspected she was too much trouble to be around their horny husbands. Obviously, there's no cathouse in town either.

Secrets: We also learn someone, most likely someone in town and known to the others, has been stealing cattle for over a year but no one really talks openly about it. It's suggested they probably know who's behind it or have their suspicions but they'd rather not deal with it publicly. There have also been some trials that led to no convictions so no one has paid for the crime.

Opportunity: When it's announced Kinkaid is dead and his cattle were seen in the possession of other men, it opens up all sorts of opportunities for the men though they're don't all benefit in the same. As Fat-Gut Smith tells Davies, he thinks he'd be more supportive of their actions if he was going to benefit in some way. That's how Fat-Gut thinks. We see him go into the bar to consume everyone's drinks when they go out to discuss Kinkaid's murder.

1. Avenge Kinkaid's murder - Farnley and Kinkaid were close so he's eager to find his friend's killer. He was also in business so was distressed over the ongoing rustling of cattle.

2. Maintain law and order in the town - The people feel justice in the town has been slow and mostly non-existent. They no longer trust the system works because in the past people have gotten off because someone vouched for them. It's also harder to hang someone with whom they've had a relationship; strangers are easier.

4. Entertainment - A lot of the men are going because it's something to do especially since there will be a triple hanging; something they probably have never seen.

5. Cover up guilt and other flaws - Like Tetley, some of the men have their own demons. They think they can atone for their sins, guilt and other flaws and appear to be on the side of good and righteousness by participating in the hanging.

6. Have a sense of accomplishment - As we see, many of the people are proud of what they've done. The sheriff was away but they were able to deal with the situation on their own. That filled some of them with pride. They even battled the cold to get the job done, no one will say they're not up to the task. Ma in particular has something to prove. As a woman she shows she's can do what any of the men can and even what they won't do, like slapping the horses after even the most hardened among them like Fat-Gut decline to do it.

Oh yes, about the painting:

A. Who knows what the painting means. It's a man watching a woman with interest but is stuck in the door frame for all time. He's very close to what he wants and yet is so far away he'll never get to her. Perhaps this is describing Carter's fate with Rose.

She's come to town with her new husband who notices some previous connection between them. He puts Carter on notice; he's to stay away from her. If there comes a time when she will receive or entertain him, it will be done by invitation and as the guest of both her and her husband. That would be frustrating which, given Carter's track record lead him to want to take his frustration out on someone yet he turns out to be one of the voices of reason in the whole affair.

B. It can also be said the painting shows what the town's people are experiencing. They want their town to be something special and will go to great lengths to make that happen. They're close, they have stores, homes, families, a judicial system, some upstanding citizens, etc. Like the man in the picture they're close enough to see their goal but they'll never get there. They've done something so disgraceful the town may be doomed. At best it will remain in limbo the way it is but most likely as the news gets out new people, strangers, will judge it unsafe and lawless and stay away. Others will move or be driven out due to their association with the guilty men or due to the town's reputation. Pretty soon the town will become deader than it is already.


Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

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