i don't know why but this movie just never resonated with me. I just thought it was reallll long and drawn out and am afraid to watch any other film versions of Hemingway items. I love Gary Cooper (Pride of the Yankees, High Noon, Mr Deeds) but almost 3 hours to tell this story seems ridiculous. I do consider myself somewhat of a cineaste so should I give it another shot?
Could you see this movie being redone today?
[deleted]
[deleted]
It's a sad day when even Ingrid Bergman can't save a movie. Even though Cooper and Bergman had good chemistry, there's nothing in the two characters to make the romance interesting; all Bergman does is smile at Cooper and he barely gets over his stoicism to return the favor. The dialogue is ridiculous, and it makes Casey Robinson's flowery dialogue in Casablanca ("Is that canon fire? Or is it my heart pounding?") sound like gold. Here's a sample, by Maria two days into their relationship: "I love you, Roberto. Always remember. I love you as I loved my father and mother, as I love our unborn children, as I love what I love most in the world, and I love you more. Always remember." Also, I think Cooper made a fine Hemingway anti-hero in Frank Borzage's A Farewell to Arms, but there's not any weariness in his performance to justify his aloofness.
Ingrid Bergman also was woefully unconvincing as a Spanish peasant, not only because she's Scandinavian but because she's playing a girl who's been raped and seen her parents murdered; it's a role that requires some amount of darkness, and she's unable to give us that--she's too busy staring into Gary Cooper's eyes. Not only that, she's supposed to be living in a mountain, yet she always looks fresh and glowing in soft-focus--she looks more like she walked out of a Palmolive ad rather than a mountain, while Katina Paxinou gamely looks like a homeless person and even gets a speech about the pitfalls of being ugly. She deserved her Oscar just for her professionalism to such an awful movie.
The film's climax is one of the most embarrassingly silly ones in recent memory: Gary Cooper takes his Hemingway stoic anti-hero so seriously he has no reaction when he falls off his horse and breaks his leg (Donald Spoto, who deliciously trashes this movie in his biography of Ingrid Bergman, hit the nail on the head when he said that "Cooper mutters the scene as if he were suffering brain deterioration rather than a broken leg"), while Ingrid Bergman has a BIG actor moment. After five minutes Cooper still can't express emotions, so they have to resort to a voice-over that comes out of nowhere to state what he's feeling, which would sound just as ridiculous it Cooper himself had delivered them.
For Whom the Bell Tolls is essentially everything I usually hate about epics: they're too self-important to bother to make anything real. This was obviously meant to be a prestige picture, from the running time to the cast to the location shooting to the fact that it was based on Hemingway's bestselling novel. Bergman took it so seriously that she cut her beautiful hair short, thinking this would be the movie she'd be remembered for. If she only knew that we'd rather have the Warner Bros. studio neverland in Casablanca...
"Only one is a wanderer--two together are always going somewhere."
Guys: Your personal views about this picture, while interesting to read, are not really germane. After all...
The movie was made nearly 60 years ago, during World War II, when epic movies with love scenes with big name stars were the norm. The fact that Coop and Bergman don't enrapture you in 2008 isn't real cinema analysis.
and
Ernest Hemingway worked very closely on this picture and wanted Cooper and Bergman to star in it. At the end of production, HE thought the picture captured HIS novel pretty well.
If Hemingway liked the picture, that's all I need to know.
But, it is a free country...if you don't like the movie, get a refund.
CmdrCody
They're germane to the extent that a good movie should remain a good movie regardless of time, and regardless to whether the author thinks his novel was well adapted. Cooper was pathetic in this very non-epic film.
Anyway according to Wikipedia "Hemingway greatly disliked the film," so I guess you'll have to revise your opinion until you see Hemingway, and he gives you his real opinion.
timlin:
It's important to note that Hemingway worked with director/producer Sam Wood on the picture, especially during the final selection of "Coop" and Bergman in the leading roles. Another actress had the job as "Maria" for a few weeks until it was clear that she wasn't suitable, so Wood went with Hemingway's original pick of Ingrid Bergman.
You say that Wikipedia says Hemingway greatly disliked the film. As with many Wiki offerings, that's not quite accurate. Hemingway was upset with the final editing of the movie...yes. The picture, made in 1943, had become a bit of a political football with the US State Department involved. The country of Spain, run by fascist dictator Franco, was still officially neutral during WW II. The Spanish junta was totally against Hemingway's novel and presumably the movie version. Washington was worried that the movie may just be the impetus to push Franco into a formal alliance with Hitler, beyond what he was doing already (the Spanish "Blue" Division was fighting with the German forces on the Eastern Front.)
So, all references to fascism were eliminated from the script. It's left up to the audience to know what the war in Spain was all about. The mention of Hitler and Mussolini using Spain for "target practice" was left in. Also, some aspects related to rape and sex between Cooper and Bergman were eliminated. So, Hemingway didn't like that, at all.
Your opinion that Cooper was pathetic in the movie is not supported by most critical reaction to the picture, but...hey...suit yourself.
CmdrCody
so well put!
"Ingrid Bergman also was woefully unconvincing as a Spanish peasant"
I'm from Spain and I can tell you there are many blond-haired peasants here, specially in North Spàin. Maybe you are a bit trapped on ethnic clichés.
I think the large mid section had too much close ups.
Too lengthy dialogue scenes.
http://us.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=4995990Top 1000 Voter share
I agree with baldhome...Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I have made it through the first 2 hours, barely; hoping the last hour is good. I remember seeing it about 30 years ago and thinking, "Whut?" Am trying to give it a second chance. So far my reaction is, "Whut?"
Finished watching it last night. Took about 3 weeks to slog my way through it, it was sooooooooooo boring. Last 30 mins. were really good. Cooper still the weakest actor of the lot...Katina and Ingrid were great though.
shareYes, the end picked up and was more interesting.
shareAt times it did feel drawn out, one reason being due to the feud between Pablo and Roberto. It became repeative to the point where I wanted Pablo killed off. Besides from certain drawn out periods it was still good to watch in terms of an allegory for World War Two, which would have been an effective message when first released.
"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not".
Overall, the movie was okay. It did have some great moments. The beginning and the last 30 minutes were the best. But in between, it dragged. The romance between Roberto and Maria was so boring. They're scenes together were so long.
"Let us be crooked but never common"
I tend to agree with Baldhome in the OP and go along with everything that Goodbye Ruby Tuesday said so well.
According to the thread discussing the full version http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035896/board/nest/68788019?p=1 there are three versions. I saw the 156 minute version. I would say the shortest version would be the best.
For the record, I rated this film 5/10. I would have given it 7/10 but took a point off for the terrible acting and another point for the bad editing.
About Hemingway's feelings about the film, and Ingrid Bergman being miscast, actually, I read in Bergman's autobiography that she herself was worried that she wouldn't be convincing as a Spanish girl, but Hemingway himself told her, "In Spain, some people are like you: tall, and blonde. You'll be fine."
Stereotypes aside, if you go to some regions of Spain, especially the northwest region of Galicia, you'll see that a LOT of the locals have very fair coloring and could easily pass for other, more northern European nationalities. Remember, the "Spanish look" is not generally the same as that of "typical" Mexicans or other Latin Americans. They're European, albeit from the south.
However, what gives Bergman away is that her accent and bearing are very Scandinavian, and don't convey that of the Mediterranean. And she doesn't act like or convey the image of a simple rural peasant who's been savagely raped but like a variation of the continental who was in love with Rick in CASABLANCA. (Katina Paxinou on the other hand nailed her role perfectly.)
Meanwhile, as stated by others here, Hemingway would have preferred that the film did not gloss over Fascism in Spain, and what the people loyal to the Republic (including foreign sympathizers such as Robert Jordan) were fighting for. As is often the case, politics intervened and Hollywood had to make a version which the Falangists wouldn't find too unacceptable.
Almost three hours? I kept fast forwarding the dvd until the last 15 minutes because I was so bored. I love Hemingway, but this film was way too long considering the plot. The story could easily have been told in 90 minutes or two hours at the most.
shareI want to jump on this bandwagon. I'm just not interested. Its so long and they just talk to each other in short, clipped little Hemingway sentences. I watched it the other day in connection with a William Cameron Menzies tribute and that did give it a slant I hadn't considered before. Interesting to compare some of the camera angles and visual techniques with those I remember so well from "Gone with the Wind" but it wasn't enough to keep my undivided attention while it unraveled on my TV across the room. I do like the love scenes toward the end of the movie but again, not enough to justify liking the entire movie.
You know how you always hear about a revered "directors cut" of a particular film? If I were to do a special cut of this movie it would run about 20 minutes.
I was bored to death for the first half of the movie. I got into it in the second half and that saved the movie for me.
First half snooze fest -3/10
Second half - 8 / 10
Total - movie deserves about a 6