Tiny bit disappointed...


I guess I was expecting a whole lot from this movie...not that I thought it was bad, it just felt soooo corny. James Cagney was good...funny, very entertaining. And I liked the way the movie was shot...seemed very ahead of it's time.

I appreciate the patriotism, but it was the same thing over and over again. It was just in your face every five seconds and halfway through the movie, I was already pretty tired of it. It wasn't like Mr. Smith Goes to Washington where the story itself was patriotic, it was literally song after dance after song about USA! Yankee Doodle! George Washington!

I'd give it a nice 7/10...all the other message boards on here made it sound FANTASTIC and I thought it was just good, not fantastic.

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Completely agree, 7/10!

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Yeah I am also disappointed. I was expecting a lot more from this movie since it was ranked among the 100 greatest movies of all time by the AFI. But the story is not interesting enough, the musical numbers goes from plain bad to just OK. Cagney is not a good singer and as a dancer, well let's say he's good but he ain't Fred Astaire nor Gene Kelly.
What saves this movie from being one of the most boring musicals I've ever seen, is James Cagney's excellent performance as George M. Cohan. As I said, Cagney might not be the best dancer and not even a decent singer, but he was a hell of an actor! Cagney and Walter Houston made the movie watchable for me.

Perhaps If I were a "yankee" I might have enjoyed all that chauvinist flag waving, but since I am not, I was looking forward for some good story, good songs and good acting. I just found the latter.

6/10.

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I've read the Cohan biography "The Man Who Owned Broadway" and the real Cohan story would have made a great bio-pic. What was left out in the movie was the fact that Cohan was considered by his peers to be a fine non-musical actor as well. One of his greatest triumphs was in Eugene O'Neill's "Ah Wilderness". Cohan mentored Spencer Tracy, and those who saw Cohan act, say that his style was very much like Tracy's.

Cohan was a theater genius. In addition to acting, directing and writing plays & songs, Cohan also could take someone else's mediocre play and update it. he owned and managed theaters.

Cohan had his dark side; if you crossed him, you had an enemy for life. He was thin-skinned and overly sensitive to criticism. There was a very nasty feud with the Actors Equity Union, bad feeling on bith sides, and Actors Equity hated Cohan even after Cohan's death.

Cohan went to Hollywood to star in his only sound movie "The Phantom President" with Claudette Colbert and Jimmy Durante. The experience was so unpleasant, he never did another movie.

Cohan was not a great dancer and his singing voice was very nasal and without much range. Cagney was the perfect fit to play Cohan.

Cagney could also have played Cohan's dark side, but since Cohan was still alive when the movie was made, there was no way Cohan was going to sign off on an accurate bio-pic.

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This movie worked overtime at proving that Cohan was a good guy: "he's okay." As opposed to what? Person B wasn't "okay?" Every single character in this movie seemed to go out of their way to defend George Cohan against some unseen force that they were worried was going to put him down for some reason.

OK, but after about the 20th time of someone saying, "he's the freshest thing on Broadway," or "we still believe in you," there comes a point when the viewer thinks that the story in and of itself should be enough to show someone's good or bad character and a constant theme of ego building is not only unnecessary but nauseating.

Then making a generation buy into the argument that people or ideas can be painted as inherently good without actual facts, data, or background to back up these assessments, a dangerous precedent has been set.

In today's America, "society or propriety" would say Mary (not Marie) in order to fit in and sound more American. Maybe when the movie was made it was an established fact that a French sounding version of a name was of higher social value. But situations have been reversed in an age of Freedom Fries. Marie would be asked why she hates America for not singing Grand Old Flag loudly.

America is great, but so are other countries. This movie was good for its time but it is a blatant prescription for recruiting Republicans. It does this by literally flying the flag in your face often, repeating things instead of backing them up with concrete reasons, and everyone getting caught up in propaganda in order to make a living off of it.

George Cohan was probably a great guy. But he was married twice and many other actual facts are glossed over, forgotten, or changed in this movie. Was this entertainment or a popularity contest commercial?

Well you're with you, honey. That's never a good time.

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Cohan was alive when this movie was made and his approval was needed. He wanted no mention of his two marriages nor of his bitter feud with Actor's Equity.

You really couldn't take the patriotism out of the movie, because some of Cohan's most famous songs are the patriotic ones.

While this movie was being shot, the Japanese attacked at Pearl Harbor and Jimmy Cagney led the cast in a moment of silence.

This movie was partly used to inspire the country when it needed inspiration. In reality, "I'd Rather Be Right" came out in the 1930s, and the song "Off The Record" never had any lines about World War II. The movie has "I'd Rather Be Right" coming out at the start of WWII.

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I completely agree with everyone else, I just watched this film and frankly it was incredibly boring and uninteresting. Cagney is really the only saving grace of this movie in his performance and dancing but everything else just falls flat. Utter disappointment!



RIP Paul Newman 1925-2008. Words can't express how much you will be missed.

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Of course, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion (one thing that makes America stand out from among many other nations), but I heartily disagree.
YANKEE DOODLE DANDY is one of my all time FAVORITE movies, and is perhaps the only film that makes me utterly PROUD to be an American!
Sure, the screenplay took liberty with the facts, but so what? America had just entered into a war against the greatest evil in the history of humanity. This country hungered for entertainment that boosted American morale and patriotism, and YDD did that perfectly.
Today--in our post-Vietnam, post-Bush society--it's easy to sneer at movies like YDD, But remember, everyone, that despite its faults and mistakes. the USA is still the GREATEST country in the world!
I'm so glad that Jimmy Cagney won the Oscar for this film--he really deserved it.

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so - along with the original poster - you needed blood, guts, car chases, alians, and high energy action?

Sorry you were bored, stuff that uses thought can do that to some people.

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[deleted]

Everyone who thought this movie was boring would not thought it boring and would have loved this movie giving it high praises if they had seen this movie in 1942 when it came out. Those you think this is boring are those who prefer a fast paced action movie. rather than a real thought out movie. I for one enoyed and is one of my all-time favorite movies.

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Those you think this is boring are those who prefer a fast paced action movie.
Want to try again? Or would you rather keep trying to feel better about yourself by making easily falsified assumptions about other people.

Frankly, anyone who uses the "anyone who doesn't like this specific film only likes stupid modern action/sex films!" line has just as shallow and limited a worldview as those who refuse to watch anything made before 1980.

I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here

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Frankly, anyone who uses the "anyone who doesn't like this specific film only likes stupid modern action/sex films!" line has just as shallow and limited a worldview as those who refuse to watch anything made before 1980.


Totally agree. I hate people using this argument.

I love classic films, but frankly I agree with the OP. I expected more too.

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

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No one said anything about car chases and aliens. there are plenty of good movies that rely upon plot, character and historical accuracy - which are things that Yankee Doodle Dandy has none of.

Your comment about "thought" is really surprising. Surely, Yankee Doodle Dandy is one of the least cerebral movies ever made.

Here's some comparisons:

Historical accuracy: Yankee DD or Schindler's List?
Character: Yankee DD or Pride & Prejudice?
Plot: Yankee DD or Shawshank Redemption?
Singing: Yankee DD or Sound of Music?
Dancing: Yankee DD or Singing in the Rain?
Costumes: Yankee DD or Moulin Rouge?

Yankee DD has some good dancing by Cagney, but not much more. It is a boring listless movie, in my opinion.

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Those are the most insane comparisons possible in your list! Schindler's List? When this movie was made, no one knew of the death camps. In fact, the Nazi's only held the Wannsee Conference to assign responsibility for methodically killing all the Jews in January, 1941. By the time of the release, we'd just entered the war. We were only receiving scattered reports of atrocities. The invasions of Western Europe were in May/June of 1940, and of Eastern Europe/Russia a year later. The isolationst U.S. were getting into a War mentality, building patriotism, and not ready by a long shot for any kind of analysis of short-comings.

Similarly, they were not in a mood for a sophisticated comedy about Victoriaqn manners, or anything casting an Austrian Naval (Austrian Navy? Is there such a thing? What do they use as a port? They have no seacoast. Do they depend on a river?) officer in uniform singing in the Alps. When they would be killing our soldiers? D.U.M.B.

Moulin Rouge? This DVD came free with another and I've never watched it. Saw the movie when it came out, did not hate it or anything, but can't bring myself to watch it again. Perhaps the costumes in YDD were trying to be consistent with those in the original productions? Who goes to a movie to see costumes, esp in time of war?

Cohan was not a great dancer--the stiff-legged thing Cagney did was how Cohan danced. Gene Kelly on the other hand is a dancing great. With Astaire he is the best, and no one can compare.

Shawshank Redemption plot? What are you talking about? 1st, audiences in 1942 were not ready for the SR. 2d, it is a movie from a book that is nothing but plot. There is no other reason but the acting to go see it. On the other hand, YDD is a musical (plots are never the big thing in any musicals--it's difficult to remember many of them) and a biopic (as opposed to a biography, which really covers a person's live and greatness) which pulls entertaining elements from a person's life and strings them together. As pointed out above, they needed the cooperation of Cohan in order to use the music and productions. He was alive, difficult to get along with, and held the rights to it all. Had he pulled them or even attacked the movie, it could have been a huge loss.

One must remember that Cohan conceived this patriotic music, this meme! Over 100 yrs ago, when no one had heard such outright emotional praise for our govt. Imagine when music was waltzes, hillbilly, and bands marching, and the first songs are sweeping the country, and you hear these rousing songs about being Yankee Doodle Dandies? The first unity after the Civil War and Reconstruction, we are one again and fighting wars and winning them. People must have been extremely patriotic to have a country again they could be proud about. This music memorializes that sentiment. It's corny, but it's first and finally happening after being born 100 years earlier. America had lost so much in the Civil War (and the War of 1812, and the "Indian skirmishes etc), but this was a new generation. WWI was a terrible war and people needed rousing songs to pull them out of it and the Flu Epidemic, so much more death. This was the perfect escape. And when another war began this was the perfect reminder that we were together and could win. Paying tribute was a typical studio idea, but I'm sure it sent audiences home with a great inspiration, uplifting music in their minds, and the positivity of Cohan and Cagny combined.

It was not a time to ask for nuance. Much less time travel to the future for your list of favorites that have nothing to do with Cohan's legacy.

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Boring?! You sound like a moron! Clearly you did not pay attention to the film, this is an american classic. If you found this boring then you must be a moron with no american spirit!

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Moron

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Amazing.

Recruiting Republicans - Cohan was a STAUNCH Democrat!!!!!ROFL

And there WERE dark forces at work in the country - spies (remember hearing about the Rosenbergs????), bombing US ships, territories, countries mass murdering people. A person is NOT paranoid, when there really ARE people out to 'get them'.

And the 'greatest thing on broadway' is pretty much the way he was seen by those that remembered his work, and the press of the time.

Great human being??? sorta - not really - but devouted, and loyal to his beliefs.

Want to see perfect example of "repeating things instead of backing them up with concrete reasons, and everyone getting caught up in propaganda" .... look at DC in 2009.

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These comments prove that pictures like YANKEE DOODLE DANDY should be seen as originally intended - in a theater with an audience. The larger-than-life production and the kinetic experience of enjoying this great Americana with a crowd results in an infectious enjoyment that can't really be described. If you saw DANDY on your tv set and didn't care for it - try to see it on the screen. It really does envelop you with its period recreation, the vibrant musical scoring and direction, the non-stop dialogue and overall Curtiz stamp of excellence.

This is, and always will be, a great film and one of the greatest examples of Americana ever produced. Cynics beware.

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Tickerage:

I don't think you understood the songs or the movie. The name is "Mary" specifically and he tells you why. It was not Marie as "society and propriety" would agree or decree. It was too stuffy for the American taste. That is the point it is the USA.
The man wrote the songs, the man held the American Flag at every conceivable opportunity.
What strikes me as the height of arrogance is your remark about a "recruitment" film for Republicans. George M. Cohan, yes Mr. Yankee Doodle Dandy was a life long DEMOCRAT. Yes a democrat wrote the songs, and in case you did not notice the two great wars that USA was involved with were sponsored by DEMOCRATS, not exactly the recruitment Republicans you talk about. The patriotic songs were a democratic instrument.
If you stretch the political spectrum way to the right you'll find yourself all the way over to the left. It is fascistic socialism.

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Moron! This is an american film! Not a foreign film, no one ever said other countries weren't great too, but this film is about america! You idiot! And the film was not just great for its time, it is great anytime! So shut your mouth and like the movie you baby!

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Nobody gets named Mary anymore! Maria, yes, but Mary has really gone out of style as a girl's name.






"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"

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It may not be as popular as before but it's false to state as a fact that no one is ever named Mary anymore. I would bet a million dollars that at least one newborn baby within the last year in the United States was named Mary and I would win.

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Very interesting -- thanks for posting this because I didn't know a whole lot about the real Cohan.

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You MUST be WAY under 40 years old.

In 1942, there was no such word as "chauvinist."

"Cagney is not a good singer and as a dancer, well let's say he's good but he ain't Fred Astaire nor Gene Kelly."

You obviously don't know who George M. Cohan was. He was not the best singer, just the best songwriter. So Cagney was portraying him properly.
Mr. Cohan had a distinct style of dance and Cagney studied him and did it to perfection. He was not supposed to be Fred Astaire or Gene Kelly.

I guess what all of you naysayers need to do is realize this was made in 1942.
It was made during WWII. It was made for the soldiers and the country.
That is why it is so very good. I have met people who remember WWII. This movie brought hope in a very troubled time.

The songs are classics and are still sung today. Unfortunately only on Patriotic Holidays, but still remembered. If you know an older person, ask them about "It's a Grand Old Flag, Over There," and most of the songs in the movie.







10/10

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Cagney can sing you moron!

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Cagney is a bad dancer?! TROLL COMMENT OF THE YEAR!

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In response to your comment about Jimmy Cagney's dancing, he is considered one of the best tap dancer's of his generation. In addition to your other comment, not many people are as good as Astaire and Kelly.

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Are you retarded? Or are you just trolling? Cagney was one of the greatest dancers and singers who ever lived! Seriously? The staircase scene? That wasn't good dance scene? No one can dance down the staircase like cagney did. Cageny was famous for his dancing! He danced with both Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly! You are a *beep* moron!

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Cohan picked him! AND, he does singing and dancing in Cohan's style!

Cagney was a song-and-dance man from his youth! Of course, he could do both and had his own style besides being able to duplicate someone else's!

So, Cagney can't dance?! Check out these!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT0Cvzfh38E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOoNOs8Ql28



(W)hat are we without our dreams?
Making sure our fantasies
Do not overpower our realities. ~ RC

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What you have to remember is that it was made in 1942. No special effects, fancy camera angles or digital sound.
You may not be old enough to know what a really good movie was back then. This is a movie of George M. It was about his music, and what it did for the morale of the entire country and of the soldiers who were fighting. It was supposed to be "the same thing over and over again." Exceptionally great music. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington was not a musical.
And as far as corny ...... guys ... 1942 ..... Corny was good back then.
You have to love musicals, history, patriotism, to get this movie. That's why it is one of the greatest movies ever made.
And I think "song after dance after song about USA! Yankee Doodle! George Washington!" is something that might be very uplifting at this particular time. We sure could use "happy things" right now.
Anyway, if you think about this movie in those terms, you won't be disappointed.

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Yea, needed more variety.

Maybe the old car with the young kids in it coulda been like bombed by alians or sumpin ya know ?

Like show their guts fly over - nowe THAT makes a good movie.

sheeeeeeesh

Let me explain patriotism, it IS the same thing over and over again. It isn't a sweater you put on when or if you need it.

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1.) The movie was in the process of being filmed when Pearl Harbor was bombed;
there was plenty of flag-waving patriotism in the air at the time (remember the
atmosphere during the first few weeks following 9/11?)

2.) The movie premiered during the early months of America's involvement in
WWII, when audiences were in the mood for patriotic themes

3.) George M. Cohan was noted for his rah-rah patriotic music; film bios of
the time tended to focus on the positive side of their subjects, unlike today,
when the more downbeat, unstable, neurotic sides of a noted figure is more
likely to be highlighted in that person's bio

4.) Cagney, a liberal Democrat who was often involved in "lefty" activities
such as organizing union organizations in Hollywood, which often angered
studio executives, was anxious to make a film which focused on pro-American
patriotism so that he could silence any critics who might accuse him of being
an anti-American "pinko"

5.) Even in the more liberal, "self-hating American" years of the '70s, this
film was regarded by most audiences as a bona fide classic, no matter what one's
politics were

6.) Any movie in which Cagney sings and dances is a winner, since he's adorable.



I'm not crying, you fool, I'm laughing!

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I love that when someone doesn't like a classic people automatically assume they are either too young to "get it" or want blood and guts.

I personally was not impressed at all with this film, I knew going into it what it was about, who Cohan was, and America going into war just as it was being made. That still doesn't exclude the fact that it was rather boring. It was just a bland story based around sub-par musical numbers. As I stated before Cagney was the only highlight but for me, it was still not enough to save it.



RIP Paul Newman 1925-2008. Words can't express how much you will be missed.

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Well, netflix chick, I'm not impressed with THE DARK KNIGHT. So, I guess that makes us even.

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Actually no snsurone that doesn't make us even because your comment was completely irrelevant.



RIP Paul Newman 1925-2008. Words can't express how much you will be missed.

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heh Chick.. I appreciate the fact that you just didn't like the movie. Far too often there has to be deep and hidden meanings behind like/dislike.. Sometimes things just strike people one way or the other.. Doesn't make either one of us wrong.. I happen to have a soft spot for musicals and history.. I know it's not all fact but I still enjoyed watching it..

Anyway, keep up the good work.




You're a Mormon...Next to you, we ALL have a drinking problem.

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I dont know i must have been watching a differant movie...cause i think the dance numbers are some of the best ever filmed....having watched the movie many times i will admit to having fast forwarded thru the drama scenes sometimes though, it does drag a bit...in addition to Cagney singing and dancing its also a delight to get to see Walter Houston as well in a singing,dancing part...most people today dont remember that he too was a song and dance man (he debuted September Song on broadway)

Moreover if you think this film isnt historically accurate you should see some of the other musical biographies of the period like "Words and Music" or "Till Clouds Roll By" or "Rhapsody in Blue" on the whole the film is pretty true to Cohan's life even if not entirely factual....

It is not our abilities that make us who we are...it is our choices

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Ditto the OP's opinion.

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Well, if George M. Cohan's music is a problem for you, than you shouldn't be watching a movie about George M. Cohan. While a lot of his songs were patriotic (e.g., "You're a Grand Old Flag," "Yankee Doodle Dandy," and "Over There"), a lot of them weren't (e.g., "Mary's a Grand Old Name," "Give My Regards to Broadway," and "Harrigan") and the movie does a good job giving a representative sample. It certainly didn't bore me, but then I grew up appreciating Cohan's various songs -- they're standards and still sung today.

What makes this film outstanding, though, was James Cagney, doing what he loved most -- singing and dancing. It got him an Oscar for good reason. He'd played a gangster so often that seeing him doing something like his was a revelation. Cagney's dancing alone is worth seeing.

I've seen this film more than once and I'm still not bored by it and I can't imagine why anyone would be.

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Everyone who thought this movie was boring would not thought it boring and would have loved this movie giving it high praises if they had seen this movie in 1942 when it came out. Those you think this is boring are those who prefer a fast paced action movie. rather than a real thought out movie. I for one enoyed and is one of my all-time favorite movies.

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I'm sorry if you find this disappointing. I found it very entertaining, which it was meant to be. Why is it that any patriotic tunes are thought to be aimed at Republicans? Aren't Democrats patriotic also? I think a good dose of old fashioned patriotism doesn't do us any harm, I'm sure other countries have their "flag waving" songs as well. As for Cagney's singing and dancing, he was a song and dance man before he became a movie tough guy (a role according to his biography he disliked).

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I'm a middle-aged guy who loves YDD, though I am disappointed by the final section, mainly because in its effort to gloss over the real Cohan, it turns the character into a boring, stock figure. But I understand that's how biopics, especially musical ones of that period, are. Look at WORDS AND MUSIC, RHAPSODY IN BLUE, or worst of all, NIGHT AND DAY.
Unfortunately, YDD wouldn't have been made at all if Cohan hadn't given his okay. I guess I can understand why he didn't want his wives mentioned, but why were his children also ignored? Were they all estanged from him?
The musical play GEORGE M! explored his dark side a little more, but unless you've seen a community theater production of it, you're outta luck.

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As a patriotic piece, it excels. As an entertainment vehicle? Yes, the film is very over-rated. Cagney is the only reason to suffer through it. Well....I suppose if one is subjected to watching Barack Hussein spew his anti-American garbage, you might throw the YDD CD in the player to wash out the stench.





Remember When Movies Didn't Have To Be Politically Correct?

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If being anti-American meant being anti so-called "Americans" like you, with your lies, fake charges, racism and hatred, then we'd all be anti-American.

True Americanism entails being tolerant, honest and respectful of people's differences. You're a perfect example of how the extremist right in this country is giving decent, honest conservatives a bad odor. Talk about having to wash out a stench.

By the way, Yankee Doodle Dandy is on DVD, not CD.

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You really couldn't take the patriotism out of the movie because Cohan himself was intensely patriotic, and his best remembered songs reflect that.











Absurdity: A Statement or belief inconsistent with my opinion.

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Of course you have to have the patriotism in this film -- it was mainly what the movie, as well as much of Cohan's career, was all about. Add to this the fact that it came out at the start of U.S. involvement in WWII, it was exactly the sort of "patriotic" entertainment people needed at the time.

By the way, joeparkson, I wanted to tell you that a couple of posts you made earlier on this thread, about the "dark" side of Cohan, and details of his real life and career, were thoughtful, interesting and well said. You provided a nice balance to the myths in the movie.

One can still enjoy a film even though it strays far from the truth. YDD can be criticized for this, for its sometimes heavy-handed patriotic displays, and other shortcomings, but it also has to be understood in its context.

Unfortunately, not everyone on this thread has a forthright notion of what "patriotism" means. Luckily, even at its most overbearing moments, the patriotism exhibited in YDD was inclusionary, in the best tradition of America. That may be the most important lesson to take away from this film.

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During the Grand Old Flag and Over There numbers, I think about people sitting in a theater watching YDD not long after we entered the War. Obviously, the movie was made to praise a great showman and entertainer, but the overt patriotism was certainly intentional given the time. I can image people singing along or tearing up when Cohan (in Over There) turns right to the camera - to the people in the audience - and says "EVERYBODY SING!". Given the current state of the country, I often lose my sense of patriotism; this movie manages to bring it back to me - at least for a while.

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I think you're right. Of course, remember that this film was being planned, and I believe even started shooting, before the United States entered the war. It was still meant to appeal to Americans' patriotic feelings but I've often wondered whether it would have been filmed differently if it had come out before Pearl Harbor. If we hadn't been at war, would it still have had the same ending of soldiers marching through the streets of D.C. singing "Over There"? That's a song explicitly intended to be sung by a nation at war, not one still at peace. (If we weren't at war, we wouldn't be going "over there".) Certainly some of the specific lines at the beginning of the movie that refer to the war ("The government needs paper"; "We'll bring him [Hirohito] in on a shutter") wouldn't have been there had we not been at war. I'm sure isolationists would have had a field day attacking this movie for its "militarism" or some such claptrap had it been released, say, in mid-1941 instead of '42. As it turned out, in its patriotic aspects, it couldn't have been more timely or appropriate.

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I'm sure isolationists would have had a field day attacking this movie for its "militarism" or some such claptrap had it been released, say, in mid-1941 instead of '42.


One must remember how much more unified the country was in those days - there were very few "isolationists" proportionately, and their support base was minimal. This led to patriotic excesses in the US that are still painful to remember - Hitler and the Nazis were not alone in rounding up members of an ethnic minority and sequestering them in concentration camps, we just didn't take the final step to the "Ultimate Solution."

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Your history isn't too accurate. Before Pearl Harbor the US was anything but unified -- in fact it was extremely divided across issues, class lines and geographic areas.

A lot of people thought the president was a Communist, and there were many right-wing extremist groups including the German-American Bund, the KKK and other neo-fascist organizations with large followings. Communists and other far leftists were also active and there was a huge division nationwide about the New Deal, the war and scores of other issues. The level of political invective was in its way as bad as anything seen today. Class warfare, racism and other forms of discrimination were rampant.

Isolationists were definitely not few in number. The vast majority of Americans in the Midwest and West were ardent isolationists, as were most of their representatives in Congress. Interventionists were centered mainly in the Northeast and South. Overall isolationists were a minority but a very large minority, approximately 40-45% or so of the country's population. They had the support of many prominent figures and major newspapers around the country. In the fall of 1941, barely two months before the Japanese attack, opposition to renewing the draft was so strong that it passed the House of Representatives by exactly 1 vote. A small majority favored sending aid to Britain and the USSR but that did not equate with favoring direct US intervention. Even after the attack on Pearl Harbor, while most isolationists of necessity had to drop their opposition to US entry into the war, they remained opposed to declaring war on Germany. It was only Hitler's decision to declare war on December 11 that forced Congress's hand to reciprocate.

As to the second part of your statement, an obvious reference to the internment of Japanese-Americans in concentration camps, this was certainly a disgraceful action by the American government but it had nothing whatsoever to do with isolationism. This "patriotic excess" was a direct response to the panic after Pearl Harbor, mixed with racism and economic envy. Many of the people who favored this policy were pre-war isolationists but many interventionists supported it too. In any case it has nothing to do with isolationism as such. This policy only came into being after isolationism had been thoroughly discredited and for other (unjustified) reasons. (And no, the US never contemplated a Final Solution regarding the Japanese as the Nazis did toward the Jews and other "inferior" races. Whatever injustices we perpetrated in this internment policy, mass murder was never a part of the plan.)

And as far as movies go, before the war explicitly anti-Nazi films were roundly attacked as pro-war or pro-interventionist by isolationists and pro-fascist groups in the country. Much of the public was not happy with movies seen as anti-fascist or pro-interventionist...even those made under the guise of a patriotic musical.

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Excellent summary, hobnob.

I think it's difficult, maybe nearly impossible, for modern Americans to fully grasp the deep hold isolationism still had on America before the Second World War. After seventy years of almost constant interventionism, of regularly sending our planes, ships and men hither and yon for various often-obscure purposes, of being "the leader of the free world" throughout the Cold War and the uncontested greatest of the Great Powers for the 25 years since, the idea that the US must always be central to any conflict is too deeply ingrained.

It's hard for most people to imagine how, for example, there could have been not one but two World Wars in Western Europe, mind you, that we were not immediately a part of because today we would be right there from the first day. WWII, in particular, is a hard one because it seems so obvious in present-day thinking that we should have declared war on September 1, 1939.

I'm neither condemning nor endorsing any opinion here - just pointing out that public attitudes have changed so profoundly that, while we may intellectually understand the attitude of the pre-war American public, understanding it emotionally and accepting its influence over popular culture are different matters.

(And no, the US never contemplated a Final Solution regarding the Japanese as the Nazis did toward the Jews and other "inferior" races. Whatever injustices we perpetrated in this internment policy, mass murder was never a part of the plan.)


No, it certainly wasn't. Our motives for the internment were not the same as Nazi motives in the Holocaust. Suggesting a similarity is offensive, both to Americans of the 1940s and to victims of Hitler's butchery, although I accept that it's a standard way of thinking among some modern Westerners, who cannot criticize any other civilization or culture without directing equal or greater criticism at our own. As you say, hobnob, the internment was a disgraceful betrayal of American values, but it was never intended to be a "Final Solution", and while racism made the action much more acceptable to the public, it was not the original driver of the action.

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Thanks, essex, and well-said yourself.

You hit on a critical point: it's difficult if not impossible for most people today, 75 years on, to fully grasp the extent, even the fact, of pre-war isolationism. It's simply not something people can understand or relate to on a gut, let alone an intellectual, level. And this is quite apart from the level of just plain historical knowledge many people may have.

We hear the term "isolationist" applied to more modern politicians, from George McGovern to Rand Paul, but their reluctance to get involved in overseas wars is in no way the kind of genuine, head-in-the-sand, the-rest-of-the-world-doesn't-matter isolationism evinced by so many willfully ignorant people in the 1930s and into the 40s (and on the part of some people, well into the 50s).

But it's also true that we're past the era when most of the country could so uniformly become of one mind in the way we did when WWII finally did come to us. People these days, even the most demonstrative flag-wavers, would never fall into the kind of singular, unthinking mind-set of unalloyed patriotism the country did back then. I think there's too much cynicism, too much self-doubt, too much self-awareness, and yes, too much innate diversity and division, today, which was largely absent from the national consciousness in the 40s. (And maybe too much selfishness.) Mind you, I don't think the development of such traits is a bad thing: I believe in the value of critical thinking and dissenting opinions. But the results would be different today than 75 years ago.

People ask whether a movie like YDD could be made today. Of course, it couldn't: most of it is of its period, and much of that wouldn't pass muster as entertainment nowadays -- as a modern picture. We can still be entertained by it with the unspoken realization that it's a part of the past, so we adjust our expectations accordingly. But another reason no modern version of it could be made is that the necessary public mind-set for blind acceptance of the story simply no longer exists.

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Dark side? He was a Conservative Democrat who didn't believe that people should be forced to join unions.

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