MovieChat Forums > The Grapes of Wrath (1940) Discussion > The Joads and Muley's Epic Fail on Finan...

The Joads and Muley's Epic Fail on Finance


How do you live on a farm for generation after generation and not own it? So even if something like The Dust Bowl hit you would still have a roof over your head.

I guess they were either renting their "home" from a larger sharecropping company or they signed the worst bank loan in financial history. Either way they don't have anyone to blame but themselves for their predicament.

If they were such good hard workers why didn't they start their own sharecropping company? If they had been living on the same plot of land for over 70 years then how could they default on a bank loan?

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You obviously know nothing of the economics of sharecropping in the early decades of the 20th Century, but that's not unusual among your ilk.

Families were often living on the same land (as described in the movie) for generation after generation, the sharecropping agreements might have been signed 70 years ago by your grandpa, the landowners didn't make a habit of coming around with copies of the lease agreement for the tenants to read, plus probably 90% of the tenants barely knew how to read so it wouldn't have made much difference if they had.

And of course in the good ole days of lassiez-faire capitalism before the evull evull guvvmint started interfering with biddnessmen with those onerous regulations like truth-in-lending acts, the landowners could keep "their copies" of the contracts and the contracts would be whatever they said they were unless the tenants could prove otherwise (which of course they couldn't).

And you can bet your sweet bippy the landowners kept track of how much produce was coming off of those farms and "adjusted" the rents so the tenants could barely break even in good years, in lean years they would be barely scraping by, and in bad years they would be going broke.


So yeah it was all just those lazy slackers' fault. Why didn't they just get off their butts and work. They don't have anyone to blame but themselves for their predicament.



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4) You ever seen Superman $#$# his pants? Case closed.

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You're right we should cater to the uneducated and irresponsible, that's where all innovation in business comes from.

If someone doesn't realize they're being taken advantage of then I don't know what to tell them. Maybe instead of working for someone you should decide to work for yourself. Starting a new business isn't easy and doesn't happen over night, but the Joads had generations to make progress but instead they decided to just sit where they were. Comfortable in being stagnate.

There's a reason why there are owners and why there are workers. And good old laissez-faire capitalism is the only fair and reasonable way of proving not who is entitled but who has earned a certain lifestyle.

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It's their own damn fault for not getting rich. If they had, they would be the ones sending the bulldozers out to bulldoze the yokel farmers off their land and they'd be laughing all the way to the bank.



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4) You ever seen Superman $#$# his pants? Case closed.

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Laissez-faire capitalism causes people to DIE. Got that?

Rich corporate welfare beggars often lie, cheat and steal, making it impossible for responsible, hard-working people who play by the rules to start a new business. The corporate welfare beggars make sure via corruption, including bribing lawmakers, that responsible people never, ever, ever, ever have the money to start a new business.

In fact, the corporate welfare beggars prefer that working class people die. I'm guessing that you sir are a "conservative" who is, in fact, a corporate welfare beggar.

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Brisk317 (aka Einstein):

Let's see you think. Why would the owners of the land that the Joads worked on pay them enough to start a new business that would compete against them? Rich corporate welfare beggars pay workers tiny amounts of money for that very reason.

Would you like the Joads to sneak away from the farm and somehow go to the nearest bank, 50 miles away, risking their very existence because they could get fired, not to mention losing money that they need to survive?

Then, would you like them to ask the bank for a loan for a new restaurant in the middle of nowhere with no money, no collateral, no skills, no employees and no customers?

You are brilliant. By the way, have you seen the studies showing that conservatives have low IQs?

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Don't make out families like the Joads to be tragic victims of a fickle fate. Check out information about the dust bowl on Wikipedia and learn about the stubborn ways of farmers in those days. It sort of reminds of people underwater in their mortgages today. Many foolishly tapped into the fairy dust equity the banks sprinkled over their rooftops. A counterfeit prosperity scam was foisted by the banks but not upon entirely good and pure people.

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Point in that land never really suitable for long term farming and farmed out like a worn out gold mine, surely? Could you call it a kind of sequel to Oklahoma? The Joads had my deepest sympathies - has anyone ever thought of a sequel?

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Brisk317, you need to understand that this was a MUCH different time than today. No cell phones, no computers, no video games. And news and current events were not obtained via the internet. Like I said, it was a very different time.

It's too bad you don't know anyone who lived in that era who can tell you what it was like. My parents were born during the depression, and my grandparents (RIP) told us it was a really tough time. They didn't come from a wealthy family that they could inherit money from--my ancestors worked all day, and it was hard work. If you knew anyone who lived during the depression, they would probably tell you that child labor was just as common as slave labor (I mean white slaves--the black slavery thing was in the previous centuries, and a much different situation). Most people during the Great Depression dropped out of school early so they could work from "sun up to sun down," as they used to say.

My parents worked hard, and the depression taught them to live miserly lives, and save every penny they could. While in their 30s, they finally had enough money to pay cash for a small farmhouse and some land in Texas, and they worked that land hard, just like they did in the early part of their lives. They taught us to work hard too, and save every penny we earned. I picked cotton, tomatoes, peanuts--you name it, and by hand. They saved and sacrificed so that none of us would have to drop out of school. We all (six children) graduated from high school, and went to college. I worked while attending college to pay for my own expenses, and owe everything to all the sacrificing and values I learned from my parents.

So what is my point? The Joads were not failures--they were just born in the wrong time, and had none of the protection from landlord/employer abuses that we enjoy today. It would benefit you greatly to do some research and learn about this era.

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"... something like the Dust Bowl?" There was nothing like the Dust Bowl.

Year after year the crops failed. Even if you owned your land free and clear at the beginning (a rarity) year after year of crop failure would eat your savings just to live. In reality most farmers routinely borrowed for seed and supplies to be paid for when the crop was sold. Year after year with no income. Year after year with the same expenses to try to raise a crop that never is harvested.

On top of that the dust could literally kill you. Dust would get in your lungs and choke you to death. You could get lost and die between your barn and the back door.

Areas of the country have never, to this day, regained their populations. Have your own sharecropping company? They went broke too. No crops, no income.

All this in the midst of a global economic depression.

The Worst Hard Time by Timothy Egan is a readable account of the period.

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This is explained a bit in the book.

The pattern was that the farms were claimed by settlers a few generations before the time when this story takes place. As time went on, the land became exhausted and less productive. There was also a long decline in the profitability of family farms that began early in the 20th century and is still going on today.

Families took out bank loans when they couldn't make ends meet, then later couldn't make the payments and defaulted on the loans, so that the banks ended up owning the land.

Then the families were able to stay on "their" land, which they no longer owned, working as sharecroppers.

Finally, with the Dust Bowl storms and the Depression, the banks and the big companies that had bought land from the banks decided that sharecropping was no longer profitable, either, and put everybody off the land.

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I believe you are correct- it was a mix of poor farming procedures and a freak drought. It wasn't entirely the fault of the Joads but they weren't complete innocents. I think Steinbeck was just shooting for an ethos of empathy and charity. Joad type families were different from today's hard scrapple families. They weren't looking for a handout-they were OK with hard work. They wanted to do their fair share. Some families today in dire straits expect - no demand- government help and aren't too keen about putting in a hard days work.

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@thepooles-1

They weren't looking for a handout-they were OK with hard work. They wanted to do their fair share. Some families today in dire straits expect - no demand- government help and aren't too keen about putting in a hard days work.


Honestly,I'm tired of that "they weren't looking for a handout" BS. Yeah, the Joads worked hard and did their fair share, but that didn't keep them from losing their farm, and being forced to eke out a living by traveling from place to place like a group of vagabonds. Hell,even people who work hard today,sadly, aren't guaranteed that they won't get laid off their jobs and wind up unemployed for months because they still can't find a job,no matter how hard they look. Even people who make a minimum wage (and working two minimum wage jobs on top if that) are finding it hard to stay afloat because the problem is, is that even though the cost of living is going up, people's wages aren't going up with it. That's what you conservatives don't seem to get,or understand. Working hard alone today is no guarantee that you will even have a job in five years, let alone ten. The days in which folks could work a lifetime at one place and comfortably retire have pretty much become a thing of the past. And corporations have already shown that they won't hesitate to pull up stakes, and go overseas where they can pay people little or nothing, no unions or anything to deal with. In other words, they have little if any Or they can just pull up stakes and move down to the right-to-work South, where they don't have any unions or worker's rights to deal with, and they can just happily exploit working folks for little or nothing. 'Nuff said, I'm done.

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I am puzzled by your response. Steinbeck saw migrant suffering and wanted to help. He hoped he could write a compelling story which would make regular folk have more compassion for their less fortunate brethren. It's an ongoing struggle of course-getting us to care about others enough to want to help if possible.

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Nobody should be compelled to join a union.

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Nobody should be compelled to join a union.

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Nobody should be compelled to join a union.

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That account seems accurate. Not all piled in a jalopy or had to. I wonder if America won't experience a similar type tragedy with people who are allowed to stay on in their foreclosed homes as renters but who will then be forced out by companies who buy large swaths of homes for foreign investors.

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You know Dorothy Parker, right? Because I'm sure she was thinking of you when she said,

"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people He gave it to."

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