when I learned that they changed the nudity in 2000 or whatever because they deemed it was not "appropriate."
don't think I'm a perv or anything! it was done very tastefully and people nowadays can't think of nudity without thinking it being very dirty, sexual, and wrong.
they didn't censor the nudity, they censored out the black centaurettes who were originally supposed to be Service girls.
for example, the scene where the drunk guy (Baccus, or something?) goes up the stairs to the throne, a carpet rolls up the stairway by itself. originally, two black centaurs unrolled the carpet themselves. (on the 50th anniversary VHS release, they just used a static frame of the carpet allready rolled out)
Don't look into the Death Star, or you will die.
They completely got rid of Sunflower, the 'pickininny negro attendent', from the Pastoral Symphony, in the 1960s, so further "editing" isn't a great big surprise.
Porn Stars have feelings too.
The nudity of the Centaurettes was always covered up. The censors back in 1940 said that they needed to wear something, so in all versions of the film the Centaurettes have worn flower bras.
Sunflower, the black Centaurette, was edited out of the film in the 1960s. Modern DVD releases have censored the sequence in different ways to each other, but Sunflower is not present either way.
The nudity of the Centaurettes was always covered up. The censors back in 1940 said that they needed to wear something, so in all versions of the film the Centaurettes have worn flower bras.
Sunflower, the black Centaurette, was edited out of the film in the 1960s. Modern DVD releases have censored the sequence in different ways to each other, but Sunflower is not present either way.
It seriously irritates me when Disney does this. And they do it A LOT!
For example, Disney spent years saying "It's not an erection! It's just a knee!" about The Little Mermaid. Then come the platinum edition, the "knee" was gone. So was it or wasn't it? Make up your mind!
I get that perceptions and morals have changed since these films were first released. However, not only are these films art, they are hallmarks of another time. They should be left alone. If a kid becomes a sex pervert or a racist from these films, well, that's not Disney's fault. It means the kids have parents who can't sit them down and explain things.
If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not bleed? ARE WE NOT HEAVY BLEEDERS?
In a story I wrote, the "Sunflower Issue" is briefly discussed. I could post that part, if anybody wants to read it. It's 1,041 words long, and set at a movie convention in the future.
I won't be traumatized for life if nobody wants to read it, it's just that this thread made me think about it.
Oh, and one of the girls is attending in the nude. Hey, the future.
- Aging is a physical problem, and physical problems are amenable to engineering solutions.
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Sorry it took me so long to get back. OK, here it is, all one thousand forty-one words of it. This is only the conversation about Fantasia.
Finally we were in the elevator, headed for the quarter-G level, and that’s when I asked Rashida why the whole “oh no” thing. She looked puzzled, blinking at me, and then her eyes got big and she launched into a verbal dance I’ll never forget.
“Oh, well, I mean, like, um… Well there’s like, no Melanesians in, that is, not in Fantasia, right? But I mean, there’s some, well not really, you know, but it’s that really, Botilda, didn’t the mushrooms, you know, bother you? And Anzu, didn’t, you know, the one girl, like, offend you? I mean, maybe it, like, should me too, but it’s, you know, not a Melanesian, but still, it’s that it’s like a walking, you know, stereotype, not of cent..., I mean... And the mushrooms! Botilda, they were, like, the eyes, you know?”
By this point she was almost shaking. I’d started getting used to the idea that Rashida didn’t talk like that when she was rolling or tripping, so now I knew she was amazingly nervous. I just didn’t know why.
“Easy, Rashida,” Botilda told her. “Is this a bad trip? The mushroom you ate? Just take a few breaths and remember: we’re all friends here.”
“That’s right,” I added, “Whatever’s wrong, we can handle it together.”
Rashida took several breaths, and chuckled. We stepped out of the elevator and walked to where the Planets Ballroom would be in a few more minutes. She took another breath and told us what was bothering her.
“The dancing mushrooms were an Orin stereotype, with pajamas and slanty eyes and... that was really there, right? That wasn’t the acid?”
Botilda was standing there, blinking. But I knew what our friend was getting at, and I took her hand in mine. “No, Rashida, it wasn’t the acid. That’s what they looked like.”
“Well that SUCKS!” she shouted, then brought her voice back to normal. “And that horrible little... jackass-human-hybrid-Afrin-centaur thing! The buck teeth, the fat lips, that stupid hairstyle... and it wasn’t a Melanesian. It was an Afrin, and did you notice she’s the only one who had to work?! Everybody else is lying around or dancing, but she’s filing hoofs and rolling carpets and... and... she was so UGLY!”
The poor girl threw her arms around me and actually sobbed a couple of times. Then she stepped back and ran her eyes over my naked form.
“Why couldn’t she look like you? Shining and bare and proud and beautiful? Her horse-part would look noble like the Pegasus, only black like the male. Instead they have to make her this, this...” She dropped her voice to a whisper. “They made her a nìgger.”
Well, there’s a word I never thought I’d hear come out of one of my friends’ mouths. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard it outside of a movie.
Botilda was trying to explain it to her as we stepped into the dance space. “It was another time. Race was a big deal, and there wasn’t the appreciation of all people that there is now. It honestly didn’t occur to anybody that this sort of thing would be offensive.”
Rashida wasn’t giving it up that easily. “How could it NOT be offensive? I almost feel ashamed for liking any of that damned movie.”
“When you take up history,” Botilda pointed out, “or you take up a hobby from way back when, you have to accept that things were different. Not all the differences will be cool or funny. Some of them will be shocking, ugly, and unpleasant. There’s no reason to be ashamed; it’s a beautiful movie. Always has been. But it comes from a time when things were acceptable that no longer are.”
Rashida looked like she wasn’t buying it.
“It didn’t take until now for it to bother anybody,” Botilda continued, “You couldn’t even see Fantasia with Sunflower in it between 1969 and 2023. That’s her name, Sunflower. She was excised because the times had changed.”
“She should still be excised!” Rashida cried.
“No she should NOT!” I barked. As my friend whirled around to look at me, I made an effort to soften my expression. Rashida was on my side. She was offended for my sake, and for that of my lover. I was also sure to soften my voice. She didn’t deserve to be barked at.
“OK, look,” I tried again, “excising Sunflower would be censorship, which is bad. It’s bad even when what’s being censored is yucky. Also, it’s just plain wrong to screw around with art like that, to try to make something from 1940 acceptable to people in 2109. If we can’t accept it for what it is, we should watch something else. Besides, the artists aren’t alive anymore. They can’t defend their work. Finally, it isn’t right to try to cover up anything ugly in the past. This just makes it look like the past was some kind of paradise, where everything was cool and funny and nothing offensive ever happened.”
I took her hand in mine, and I stroked her blonde hair, so striking against her darker-than-mine skin.
“You’ve heard people say,” I continued, “that things were better in the past, that ‘it was a more innocent time,’ or ‘we didn’t have these problems back in my day,’ or ‘people knew how to act before’ whatever or things like that.” She nodded her head. “Well forget all that,” I told her. “It’s a load of horseshìt. I’m a history buff, and I know the past wasn’t some magical Golden Age when everything was wonderful. And trying to pretend that things like measles and racism and famine didn’t exist just lets people fall for the lie. Excising Sunflower just makes the lie a little bit easier to believe.”
I gave her a quick hug, activated my lights, homers, and fireflies, and added, “It’s actually a GOOD thing if I’m occasionally reminded that I’d’ve been a second-class citizen in 1940. Keeps me from falling into the ‘I wish I could have lived back then’ trap. Oh no I do NOT wish that I lived back then. Now let’s dance.”
She smiled at me. “PURL.”
“PURL,” Botilda agreed, and I nodded as I added my own declaration of, “PURL.”
Actually, everyone in the pastoral is working. At one time or another. All work for Bacchus the god.
It may open with the Centaurs getting primped up or dancing, but they end up working.
Or don't you think that collecting grapes and converting grapes into wine wasn't work?
Centaurs dance while collecting grapes. They dance while taking the grapes to the vat. And Fauns dance while crushing grapes.
So saying that Sunflower is the only one working is just plain wrong. In fact, she seems the wisest of all the Centaurettes, if we see the scene with an adult mind.
She teaches the Centaurettes to be attractive to the Centaurs.
She polishes or cleans the hoofs of a Centaurette.
Then she pins flowers on the long tail of another Centaurette, and when this one flicks her tail sending the flowers off, Sunflower makes a face! Annoyed?
At some point, she is coaching another Centaurette on how to move. With the reins, she halts her and pushes her tail up. Then Sunflower moves around, teaching that Centaurette how to move her behind!
If you look at the scene again, all the Centaurettes move in the way that Sunflower was teaching that Centaurette! Centaurettes stop, look, move their behind, then continue...
So in a sense, Disney may have removed Sunflower, not only because she was black, but because she was deemed the most sexually mature...
That's an interesting take on Sunflower, and it hadn't occurred to me. Or Rashida, of course.
The other centaurs work together, dancing the whole time, but Sunflower works alone. It's obvious that she is of lower status than the others. That she has the most fashion sense or knows best how to catch a guy's eye is an interesting take, like I said, but still, there's a reason you wouldn't do it that way today.
I disagree with you, but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler.
- Jon Stewart
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