MovieChat Forums > Fantasia (1941) Discussion > Would it be heresy to ask for a new soun...

Would it be heresy to ask for a new soundtrack recording?

posted 14 years ago by mboone-1
12 replies | jump to latest

The woodwinds sound clear, but the strings distorted at loud levels. I liked the music from Bach's Toccata and Fugue, but the sound quality was disappointing. The music kept bouncing around the speakers. Was this to simulate the original Fantasound?

I wish the DVD and blu-ray would let us choose between the original 1940 score, the 1982 digitally recorded score, or even a newly recorded score.

The Fantasia 2000 score is beautifully recorded and sounds amazing in lossless 5.1.

[–] DickyBettsBass 14 years ago

I wish the DVD and blu-ray would let us choose between the original 1940 score, the 1982 digitally recorded score, or even a newly recorded score.

I agree. It's sad that Irwin Kostal's 1982 digital score re-recording has been completely discarded. It would have been a great option on DVD and Blu-ray.

I must admit though, that given the old 1956 magnetic transfer of the optical original soundtrack the engineers had to work with, the digital 2011 release sounds as good as it can ever be, and is really impressive, despite some distortion.

It's not Stokowski's Fantasound, however, with its weird constant shifts and swirls of sound between the left and right channels, and excessive volume manipulation of (groups of) instruments.

The current remix is a lot easier on the ears than the faithful 1990 restoration, but is not in keeping with Stokowski's original experimental vision.

Again, Disney shows a worrying, frequent tendency to manipulate or distort history as they please. I can see some technical and perhaps even artistic decisions have to be made, but they should be frank about them, and supply options on modern releases (easy with current technology) to show their pictures as they were originally intended.

Dicky

[–] frederik olsen 14 years ago

I agree with you both on the 1982 recording. It sounds brilliant and it would be great to have as an additional soundtrack.

That said, I love the Blu-ray and appreciate its soundtrack. The dynamic range is amazing for a recording of that age. It may not sound perfect, but it is a testament to how innovative "Fantasia" really was.

Finally, this fan edit project may interest you: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Fantasia-Hybrid-Edition/topic/11692/. Some guy is apparently trying to do a hybrid version that combines the general release introductions (featuring the real voice of Deems Taylor) and the 1982 soundtrack. That'd work for me!

[–] mboone-1 14 years ago

I purchased the 1982 recording CD from ebay for about $5. Sometime I'll have to sync the CD with the blu-ray and play them together!

[–] Blackjack254 14 years ago

I've heard the 1982 version of the "Ave Maria", and I think the 1940 version fits the scene much better, as it's much more subdued, the 1982 version sounds too gaudy.

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[–] frederik olsen 14 years ago

Generally, the 1940 recording is my preferred soundtrack, though as I've stated above, I appreciate the better audio quality of the 1982 recording. Stokowski's arrangements are a lot more subtle and dynamic, though. Kostal seems to pull all the punches in some sections that don't neccessarily benefit from that. A good example would be the brief scenes of the ghosts ascending from the graves in "A Night on Bald Mountain". The strings in the 1940 recording are much creepier!

I do wish I had a BD drive in my computer, though. I'd love to have a high def version that includes both Deems Taylor's original voice and the 1982 soundtrack for my own personal use.

[–] DickyBettsBass 14 years ago

A good example would be the brief scenes of the ghosts ascending from the graves in "A Night on Bald Mountain". The strings in the 1940 recording are much creepier!

Apart from obvious advances in recording quality and dynamics, there's one alternative artistic decision that was made for the 1982 recording. Stokowski used Rimsky-Korsakov's arrangement for A Night on Bald Mountain, because this was seen as a more acceptable, tamer score to novice ears. Kostal went back to composer Moussorgski's original orchestration.

Dicky

[–] Frumious_Bandersnatch_46 14 years ago

Some guy is apparently trying to do a hybrid version that combines the general release introductions (featuring the real voice of Deems Taylor) and the 1982 soundtrack. That'd work for me!

Me too! Me too!

Would someone please let me know if this ever becomes a reality?

Considering the storage space and the variety of audio options that Blu-ray is able to offer, it shouldn't really be difficult on a technical level. The difficulty would be on a "technicality" level: Convincing the powers-that-be at Disney that such an offering would have enough of an audience [read "potential buyers"] to justify the cost of producing it.

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[–] nabo7 12 years ago

I just finished watching my 21-year-old VHS copy on my new home theater, and I was pleasantly surprised at how good I could get it to sound by boosting the low bass and high treble, in spite of the distortion in many places. It always had sounded muffled to me in theaters. It was a mono playback because my only surviving VHS machine does not have stereo, so my next purchase will be a new VHS/DVD combo.

Having said that, I like to daydream about what I would like to do if I had an unlimited restoration budget. It is unfortunate that the original soundtracks werer allowed to deteriorate as they did. My first priority would be to restore the sound of the earthquake in the Rite of Spring section. My father saw it the original 1940 system, and he said the timpani roll spreading to the back of the theater was breathtaking.

I daydream of hiring the Philadelphia Orchestra for such a project, but if they are too expensive I would settle for a good studio orchestra. I would duplicate Stokowski's work with one exception. I felt that his tempo in the second movement of the Pastoral Symphony was too slow. I am curious to see if the picture in this movement could be speeded up from 24 to 30 frames per second (which would simplify syncing with TV) without looking frantic.

[–] nabo7 12 years ago

Addendum: I now have a new stereo VHS machine up and running. Sometimes the sound bounces around in ways that would be outrageous in a sound-only playback, but fits the action on the screen. Let's face it, this production was made to order for Stokowski's propensity to show off. Many purists were outraged with some of his performances, but I think he deserves a lot of credit for promoting music as he did and I am fine with preserving the old recordings as part of our cultural heritage.

I don't know what the company thought was the problem with the sound of Deems Taylor's commentary in the interludes. Low-fi soundtracks that are unsatisfactory for the full sound spectrum of the orchestra can be fine for speech and even singing, especially with some judicious use of modern computer processing. Are there some garbled segments missing from the 1991 VHS copy?

[–] DickyBettsBass 12 years ago

There was no problem with the Deems Taylor narration in the segments we have on the VHS version or any other reissue before 2000. The problem was that, during the recent movie restoration, they found extended narration from the 1940 premiere, of which the image was intact, but the soundtrack had been lost. They were faced with a dilemma: either have the refound footage voiced by a mimic, or redo all the dubbing by a modern voice actor. They decided for the latter, to avoid strange jumps in voice quality. I'm really a stickler for authenticity, but I understand why they redubbed all the narration. Of course, lots of options could be created on especially Blu Ray with different soundtracks, stereo mixes, alternative footage, missing scenes and the like, but if these, as I reckon, are only of interest to purists and archivists, I agree that such a set-up could be extemely messy and bewildering on a general commercial release.

Dicky

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] DickyBettsBass 10 years ago

Well, there is a workable opportunity now of sorts. As someone posted on this board, a Disney Legacy CD Collection has just come out of a large number of movies, including Fantasia. All of these include additional tracks, like incidental music, outtakes and demos on extra discs.

In the case of Fantasia, the 3rd and 4th disc contain the Irwin Kostal digital re-recording.

http://www.disneymusicemporium.com/rgshop/fantasia/

This means someone with technical skills could synchronize the Irwin Kostal score from CD to the DVD or Blu-ray releases, so you have an option to choose and compare the two soundtracks.

Dicky